Sirius revisited

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 104287

Demetra wrote:
 (much snipping)
> > I too have been thinking about Sirius and his story for a while, 
> > probably since I read Kneasy's post #79808.  
> > 
> > Just to qualify where I'm coming from – I like Snape (would 
> > probably qualify as a Snape apologist), I like Harry (yes it is 
> > possible to like both Snape and Harry) and I was puzzled by 
> > Sirius in PoA, liked him in GoF and didn't like him at all in 
> > OotP.  However, I was convinced that he was being slipped a 
> > confusement and befuddlement draft in OotP and that was what 
> > caused his seeming personality change.  I also thought that 
> > perhaps his passing through the veil was a heroic and necessary 
> > act that he volunteered for (see Talisman's Tactics&Prescience 
> > thread starting with post 66983 and my response 76111).  I'm 
> > less convinced of that now, although I do think that Sirius may 
> > play a future role as a conduit between those living and 
> > those who have moved on to the next great adventure.    
> > 
> > Most recently though, I started viewing Sirius in an altogether 
> > different light.
> > 
> > Because there is no doubt in my mind that Sirius is an impulsive 
> > man who doesn't think things through and never grew up.  And I 
> > can't buy the argument that he couldn't mature because he was in 
> > Azkaban for 12 years.  Why hadn't he matured before then?  
> > 
> > Let's see, he talks about the full moon fondly to his werewolf 
> > friend, who suffers greatly because of what he is.  That's 
> > kind.  Then he refuses to help his friend study because he knows 
> > everything already.  Never mind that his friend might need some 
> > help.  Not a concern of Sirius', who acts as though the world 
> > revolves around him.  

> >  I'm convinced there is more to the Snape/Lupin dynamic than 
> > meets the eye.  Both seem to have been bookish when in school.  
> > James and Sirius don't.  Is it possible that Lupin and Snape ran 
> > across each other in the library – like Hermione and Krum?  
> > Could a tentative friendship have started – something that 
> > Sirius felt a need to end, and if Snape ends up dead more's the 
> > better?  And if Lupin could tentatively befriend someone like 
> > Snape, couldn't you see Sirius taking that as evidence 
> > that Lupin was the one who was betraying the order later?  
> > 
> > My only problem is that at the end of GoF Dumbledore says he 
> > trusts both Snape and Sirius.  So despite all my misgivings, I 
> > can concede that = Sirus might be on the right side, although he 
> > is far from nice (IMHO anyway).  
 
 
Kneasy:
> IMO Sirius is a nasty character, written sympathetically. This 
> raises the question - why? Is he the flawed hero, the Heathcliffe 
> of Hogwarts? A thoroughly bad lot redeemed (in this case) by his 
> love for Harry? Or is the sympathetic presentation a device to 
> lull the unwary into thinking he's not as bad as he really is and 
> so presenting the eventual proof of his betrayal in even starker 
> contrast?
> 
> One thing that most posters forget, even though it is thrust under 
> our noses - the conflicts in the Potterverse are wider than just 
> good vs evil. It can simplify matters if one ignores this; one can 
> boil it all down to pro- or anti-Voldy, which is a mistake IMO.
> 
> JKR has told us often enough how much background she writes on each
> character, even though she knows it  will never be used in the 
> books.  Sirius is a case in point. There's an entire life history 
> of Sirius in her files and I'll bet the detail is mind-boggling. 
> She knows Sirius as an individual, likes, dislikes, hates, 
> motivations, significant life events. Much, much more than we will 
> ever see.
> 
> Sirius has 'issues' (God, I  hate that word) with his family, with 
> Snape, with Peter, even as you point out, with Lupin. 
> Superficially they seem to be explained - an antipathy to pure-
> blood attitudes, dislike of the 'idea'of someone like Snape, 
> hatred for someone who betrays a friend, dismissive of those less 
> assertive than himself. 
> 
> He has a whim of iron. It's unlikely that he would concede anything
> gracefully; he may never concede anything at all. 
> 
> It is not inconceivable that one or more of Sirius's 'personal' 
> stances runs counter to the philosophical choices between good and 
> evil. In principle he may be 'for' good, but if a personal 
> antipathy to an individual conflicted with this, I think that  
> general principles would go out of the window. 
> 
> And I  can't see how Sirius will end up looking better, not given
> what we already know.


SSSusan:
I can't believe it.  I'm sitting here stunned.  As much as I've been 
willing to enter the fray with Snape discussions--bashing him here, 
appreciating him there, always willing to say I enjoy him--all it's 
taken are posts by Demetra & Kneasy, and I'm ready to just concede 
to one side on the Sirius discussion!

I thought I liked him; I thought I could *fairly* easily defend him 
if I gave some time & thought to it.  But you two have stunned me 
into thinking I can't.  I mean, saying he has a whim of iron [great 
phrase] strikes me as so true, and it does seem to follow that if 
faced with a personal stance that goes against good vs. evil, well, 
*would* he make the tougher choice??  I'm not so sure.

Hey, everybody!  Besides the lousy upbringing/12 years in Azkaban 
explanations/rationales/excuses [take your pick], is there any way 
Sirius can be defended against some of the points Demetra & Kneasy 
have made??

What I wouldn't give, Kneasy, to see those notes of JKR's on 
Sirius....

Siriusly Snapey Susan...who *appreciates* someone else pointing out 
that it's possible to like Snape AND Harry [thanks, Demetra].