Return from the Underworld in Greek Mythology (Re: Sirius Black Poll)

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 104308

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "mhbobbin" <mhbobbin at y...> 
wrote:
> griffin782002 wrote:
> 
>   I have my own thoughts about the veil. J.K.R. has used many 
elements
>             from ancient mythologies for her books. For example,
> centaurs were wise and play an important part in Greek myths. ... 
Also
> the ancient Greeks believed that a three-headed dog, known as
> Cerberus, guarded the entrance to the Underworld, which they called
> Hades. There are myths which tell the story of a hero that for some
> reason has to 'visit' the
> Underworld. Hercules has to go there in order to 'borrow' Cerberus 
for
> one of his twelve tasks. Orpheus, a mythicmeal micisian went to take
> back his dead wife. I wonder if the veil is a similar kind of
> entrance. ...
> 
> 
> mhbobbin writes:
> 
> The Greek Mythology references are why I am in denial about death of
> Sirius. Yes, he's dead, as JKR has indicated, but so were the
> characters in Greek Mythology which JKR draws from. And we know now 
if
> we don't have a body in JKR's world, the death is suspect.
> 
>  In addition to the two myths that griffin782002 mention, Heracles
> goes to the Underworld to bring back Alcestis, and then there's the
> story of Persephone, whose return from the underworld is negotiated
> but who returns only half the year (Spring and Summer) because she 
has
> eaten a pomegranate seed. That makes four different Greek myths 
about
> return from the Underworld. 
> 
> We have in our story thus far the requirements for the task of going
> into the underworld. I don't think that's coincidental.
> 
> 1. We have the requisite motivated and brave hero in Harry.
> 2. We know where the entrance to the underworld is.
> 3. Our hero knows how to get past the large three headed dog. Fluffy
> is either Cerberus or a close relative. Hagrid got Fluffy "from a
> Greek chappie". And where is Fluffy these days?
> 4. Harry mistakenly adds Pomegranate Juice to his potion on p363 , 
Ch
> 17 of OoP.  There's no mention of pomegranate anywhere but here, as 
an
> error by Harry. By inserting this fruit with its mythological
> association with Persephone and the Underworld into OoP, is JKR
> planting a seed in our minds?
> 
> Well, eventually we will see what happens.


Bren now:

Hmm. Let me add to the list of 4 "Return from the Underworld" 
(Hercules, Orpheus, Heracles, Persephone) -- if my memory serves 
correctly, Eros' wife Psyche goes to Underworld to borrow "the beauty 
box" (which contained sleep) from Percephone, as part of 
her 'redemption plan' to Eros and Aphrodite.

You have presented your arguments neatly, and as a member of SAD 
DENIAL I wish that *so* much. But what I can't deduce from your canon 
is whether you believe Sirius will come back as good-old Padfoot!
Sirius OR some other form. Judging by the fact that all 5 characters 
came back to life in their original body, I'd have to say you're 
arguing for the former.

In that case I think unlikely. JKR has said that Sirius is really 
dead and death is final (speaking from personal experience perhaps?). 
And you must admit, the world JKR has created is far more real than 
Greek Mythology (GM) or other famous fantasy worlds. Potterverse 
doesn't mirror GM or King Arthur stories *exactly*. Sure, she has 
taken elements from them -- being a fantasy novelist she probably 
read them numerous times and consequently her imagination is somewhat 
encircled in that boundary. This is why I wouldn't necessarily use GM 
(eg. the 5 "dead-then-undead" characters) to support why Sirius will 
come back to life.

To roughly borrow D-Dore's words, "death is the next adventure 
awaiting", and Headless Nick's, "[Sirius] would have moved on..."

Sirius' life (especially the last few years and a decade before that)
wasn't exactly the most desirable one and I doubt he would choose to 
come back, not in the traditional sense anyways.

However, I do sincerely believe that Sirius will be back in different 
form. Am I alone in feeling that JKR just "dumped" the character 
SHORTLY after having gone through a whole lot deal of 
creating/complicating him? Yes, we all have enjoyed and LOVE him (to 
various degree), but it seems like a *waste* if Sirius didn't take 
part in the final master-plot of HP series, after... well after a 
whole book dedicated to him and another heavily dependent on him.

What do you think?

Bren