Potions O.W.L - Pass vs High-Pass

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 104534

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at y...>
wrote:
> > Steve/asian_lovr2:
> > 
> > In my humble opinion, to give Harry an 'Outstanding' is the same
> > as assuming Ron, Dean, and Seamus will all get 'Outstanding' 
> > grades. Which in turn somewhat negates those student who truly do 
> > outstanding work like Hermione and perhaps Draco. Hermione must 
> > surely get a better grade than Harry.

 
> Carol:
> Hermione will get a better grade (mark) for the *course,*
> certainly--but not necessarily for the OWLS, on which Harry
> undoubtedly did better than he thinks he did. For one thing, as
> Umbridge of all people indicates, Snape's student are somewhat more
> advanced than she (and probably the test administrators) expects
> them to be.
> 

Asian_lovr2:

Well, you can see from what remains of my quote above, if you think
Harry got an 'Outstanding' that's close to thinking everyone got an
outstanding.

I think we can safely say that Herione indeed did get an 'outstanding'
in potions; so, are those who think Harry will get the same grade also
saying that Harry has the same calibre of potions skill as Hermione?
It's clear from the story that Hermione IS outstanding at potions, and
it is clear Harry is NOT. 

Stated from another angle, what's the purpose of the TOP Grade, if it
doesn't go to the TOP Students? 

Even factoring in the test conditions, I just can't see how a student
who had difficulty with the class, difficulty with the test, and
thought he might scrape by with an 'Acceptable' can suddenly jump to
'Outstanding'. It's just too great a leap.

As I see it, people want Harry to get 'Outstanding' because they
assume that that's what it takes to get into NEWT Potions class, and
that's what it takes to become an Auror. But neither supposition is
absolutely truth. 

You only /historically/ need an 'Outstanding' to get into */SNAPE's/*
NEWT Potions. Different teacher, different rules. Different times,
different rules. Different student, different rules.

As far as needing Potions to be an Auror, I also pointed out
reasonable exceptions to that rule. An otherwise outstanding student
who was fair at potions and good at Herbology has a high likelihood of
 doing just as well as a student who was fair to good at DADA, and
good at Potions.

I don't think Potions is a required course to be an Auror, I base this
on my interpretation of the way McGonagall phrased her statements
during Harry's career counciling. It's not the class or the NEWT that
you need to be an Auror, it's a demonstrated bank of knowledge and
skill. A good cross sectional knowledge of potions, plants, poisons,
and antidotes could be gained with a basic working knowledge of
potions (OWL Level) and NEWT Herbology. 

I will acknowledge that Potions is a broader more diverse field than
Herbology, but the key is still a working knowledge and not a class
credit. What McGonagall tells Harry in their career meeting is not the
class requirments, but the areas of knowledge the best serve an Auror.
That and the fact that you need 5 NEWTs. But the 5 NEWTs and 5 areas
of knowledge are only logically connected, not literally. You need
that bank of knowledge, but you may get it through various assorted
combinations of NEWTs.

Blah-blah-blah yada-yada-yada, I know you've heard me say all this
before, but that's my story and I am sticking to it. 

> Carol continues:
>
> As for "high-pass level," I wonder whether that hyphen is in the
> British edition or only the American one and whether the Brits on
> the list interpret it as you're doing ("E" level) or as a high 
> number of students passing the exam, which is essentially the same 
> thing as expecting almost everyone to get at least an "A."
> 
> Carol, hoping that last long sentence is clear
> 
> Carol

Asian_lovr2:

This 'high-pass level' /thing/ has lead to a lot of confusion, so I am
going to state it in the simplest terms-

1.) It may mean that the students are above average and get above
average grades. They are mostly 'B' student rather than 'C' students.

2.) Or, it may mean that more people pass Snape's class than pass
potions at say Beauxbatons. Snape has a higher Pass RATE.
Illustration; at Hogwarts 90% of the students pass OWL Potions; at
Beauxbatons 70% pass OWL-level Potions.

I choose item '1.)' because Snape says that he expect every single
student to pass. True, that is a high pass RATE, but he and Umbridge
both indicate that the skill level is high, higher than typical. So I
take 'level' to mean grade level, not pass rate.

For what it's worth, indeed the USA edition says 'high-pass level',
whereas the UK edition says 'high pass level'. I'm not sure what that
tells us though.

In conclusion - (bet you thought it would never come)

Harry will pass OWL Potions, but he will not get 'Outstanding'. He
will, however, do better than he expected.

Harry will be in NEWT Potions class.

Harry will continue to have Snape for a teacher, but this statement is
not necessarily related to the statement above. 

Snape and Harry will gain a new grudging respect for each other. I
think the Occlumency lessons showed them both a side of the other,
that they had never considered before. I actually wonder if that
wasn't the whole purpose of the Occlumency lessons, not so Harry would
stop having dreams, but from an authoral perspective, so Harry and
Snape could gain some insight to each other. This will not happen
until Harry gets over blaming Snape for Sirius's death. I actually
think statments to that effect were heat of the moment, and Harry will
see things differently once he's had a chance to process the whole
ordeal. IMO:The two key purposes of the Lessons are to introduce the
reader to the concepts of Occlumency/Legilimency, and to give Harry
and Snape insight into each other; teaching Harry 'mind blocking' was
merely the excuse.

Harry will continue with the DA Club (school wide, all houses), but
the club will now be influenced by Snape. He will be like the faculty
advisor. ...and a good time was had by all. 

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble on like that, but I couldn't restrain myself.

Steve/asian_lovr2