CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 22 - St. Mungo's Hospital

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 104618

Wendy, hebridean_black_dragn, wrote:
> While I was mostly disappointed with Moody, I also think that a great
> many of the adults in Harry's life "dropped out" on him in OoP. While
> I *was* disturbed by Harry's behaviour in OoP, in some ways it's hard
> for me to fault him too much, as he's going through some serious 
> stuff in this book without a whole lot of support from the adults in 
> his life. I think the eavesdropped conversation at the end of this 
> chapter is a good illstration of this. 

Del replies :
This has been discussed before : support is not something the WW seems
to care about. Harry doesn't get it, Sirius doesn't get it, Neville
doesn't get it, and so on. No matter how painful one's life might be,
one is still expected to deal with it on one's own or with the help of
one's friends. Even family doesn't seem to count much : the Weasleys,
a tight family is ever there was one, don't really help each other
unless something really bad happens.

Wendy wrote :
> On the surface, perhaps, it doesn't sound so bad. They don't really
> say anything awful about Harry. But it's not so much *what* was said
> as the *way* it was said.

Del replies :
You have to remember one thing : we don't *see* what the characters
look like while they are talking. Words and the tone used to say them
can tell a lot about what someone means, but not always. Even visual
clues can be misleading or not very informative, but words even more so.

Wendy wrote :
> When I read that, I was really struck with the feeling that they talk
> about Harry as he if were a stranger, not a person that they know and
> about whom they care. When Moody calls him "the Potter kid," it 
> sounded so *cold* to me, and I felt Moody was speaking about Harry 
> merely as an aspect of Moody's job as an auror. Moody sees Harry as 
> something to be "dealt" with, rather than seeing him as a person. And
> it seemed clear to me that even if Moody does see Harry as a 
> "person," there's no affection there for Harry. 

Del replies :
Forgive me for asking, but why *should* he have any affection for
Harry ??? He barely knows him ! And he sure doesn't understand him
much : he thought showing Harry a picture of his dead parents among
their dead friends was something of a *treat*.
And yes I think Moody sees Harry as a thing to be dealt with, just
like many teachers and headmasters do some of their students. Moody
doesn't know Harry personally, he doesn't work alongside him, but he
still has to protect him and work in a secret organisation to do so.
Harry is indeed just an aspect of Moody's job as an Order member, not
a friend or something.

Wendy wrote :
> I was also less than thrilled with Molly, who doesn't come to his
> defense when Moody says they *all* know there's something funny about
> Harry. In fact, her response almost makes me think that she agrees,
> but that since Dumbledore was worried about Harry, then perhaps 
> *that* mitigates Harry's "funny-ness" somehow.

Del replies :
But there IS something funny about Harry ! Come on, he's the Boy Who
Lived, the only person ever to have survived an AK. He's got a weird
connection to LV through his scar, he keeps running into LV and
getting away thanks to strange help. He *is* funny indeed, and there's
no denying that, no matter how much you love Harry. Molly loves Harry,
but she knows that there's something odd about him, so why should she
scold Moody for saying so ?

Wendy wrote :
> In any case, this scene really disturbed me. I was uncomfortable with
> the tone of the discussion about Harry, and I also had a lot of anger
> and sadness that Harry had to hear them talking about him in this 
> way. Sure, they didn't know he was listening, but that doesn't make 
> me feel any better about what they said. I actually had to put the 
> book down after reading this so I could have a good cry about how 
> DAMNED UNFAIR it was of all of them to treat Harry this way, when 
> he'd never done anything to bring this upon himself. I was really 
> angry and hurt on Harry's behalf.

Del replies :
I don't understand. I don't see what's so unfair about stating the
facts and discussing them *away from Harry's ears*. Isn't it what
parents do when their kid starts acting up ? Isn't it what teachers do
when a kid is misbehaving ? Isn't it what kids and adults alike do
about someone a bit weird they know ? They *talk* about those people.
It's perfectly normal, even if that person didn't try to bring that on
themselves. If a handicapped kid is to go to a new school for example,
the headmaster will discuss the matter (notice that I did say "the
matter", not the kid : very cold and impersonal indeed) with the kid's
teachers, and away from the kid, at least for a moment.
Moreover, I don't see that Molly at least doesn't care for Harry,
quite the opposite. Her husband has just been attacked by a mortal
enemy, he's not cured yet, and yet she still tries to get some answers
about Harry out of Moody, and she points out that DD is worried about
him. That to me indicates that she cares about Harry *a lot* but
doesn't know how to deal with him.

Wendy wrote : 
> This was just one of several scenes when I felt the adults in Harry's
> life showed that they don't care about him (at least, not as much as
> I'd like to see), and that they really didn't offer him the support
> they could have.

Del replies :
I disagree. I think the adults showed many times that they do care
about Harry. Molly does her best to make him feel good when she's
around him, and she gives him advice to try and keep him safe. DD
takes very difficult decisions whose only goal is to keep Harry safe
and as little involved in the war as possible. Sirius goes out of his
way to support Harry. Lupin is always there, but Harry just won't go
to him and Remus is not the kind to impose himself on anyone. Even
McGonagall shows more obviously than ever than she cares about Harry,
either in the talk they have after Harry's shouting match with
Umbridge, or during the Carreer Advice meeting.
And after all, if the Order took all those pains to keep the Prophecy
safe, isn't it first and foremost for Harry's well-being ? They could
just have sent him in there under a Cloak or something and have him
remove the Prophecy as soon as they figured that it was what LV was
after, but DD didn't want to burden Harry with that, and the rest of
the Order agreed to that. That's a *big deal*, IMO.

Wendy wrote :
> I think that, while Harry did make some huge mistakes in the book 
> (leading, of course, to huge consequences), a huge chunk of the blame
> must lie with the adults in his life who just don't quite know how to
> give Harry the help that he needs when he needs it. 

Del replies :
I don't have a problem with that, personally, because it feels so REAL
to me. In RL either, adults just don't know how to give help and
support to kids. Even the most loving parent can very easily find
themselves confronted to their teenage kid who craves their support
and affection. The parent gives and gives and gives, but the kid feels
like he's not receiving anything, simply because the two don't speak
the same language. It happens so often that it's almost a cliche.
Morevoer, it doesn't help that Harry won't ask for help when he needs
it, and won't take it when it's offered to him. He keeps wanting to do
things on his own as much as possible, and he keeps lying and saying
that everything is fine even when everything is wrong. It's a
perfectly normal attitude for a teenager, but it doesn't help : how
can the adults help when they don't even know that Harry needs help
and when Harry won't take their help anyway ? Are they supposed to
*guess* and then to *impose* their help on him ? I have a feeling
Harry wouldn't be grateful for that...

Del