Sirius revisited--emotional maturity

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 104698

SSSusan:
> > I think you're right, too, that we were/are INTENDED to think of 
> > Sirius as one of the good guys.  And because there were good 
> > aspects to his character, I have continued to issue *tempered* 
> > or *qualified* "defenses" of him.  I think there were many good 
> > THINGS about him, but the recent spate of posts pointing out his 
> > failings have really made me reconsider the overall Sirius.  

Jekatiska says:
> Oh, come on. Sirius was a KID. Kids do stupid things. Kids do 
> cruel things. They behave differently when adults are not there - 
> so we can't be sure even of our own kids/siblings/family members, 
> as we will never know what they are like when we are not there. 


SSSusan:
Well, first off, "Oh, come on" is a phrase that makes me bristle.  I 
respectfully say that I don't HAVE to "come on."  Besides, my point 
about Sirius was twofold:  1) Harry and lots of other KIDS *don't* 
behave the way Sirius did; and 2) Sirius was STILL behaving in a 
reckless manner as an adult--thus, my inclusion of the goading-Harry-
from-the-fireplace scene.


Jekatiska said:
> Harry as an orphan raised by a foster family that hates 
> him, has had a difficult childhood and has had to *think* at an 
> early age, something most kids in our comfortable western society 
> don't have to do (even when they grow up...). Thus he is much more 
> mature than his father and Sirius at the same age. 


SSSusan:
But Sirius' homelife was awful enough that by the time he was 16 
[IIRC] he had moved out and gone to live with James' family.  In 
fact, his family was a bunch of racist fans of the Dark Arts.  I'd 
say Sirius had to do nearly as much *serious thinking* about a sucky 
life as Harry did.


Jekatiska said:
> Sirius was immature, cruel and self-centered, but then many kids 
> from privileged backgrounds are. It does not make a person *bad* 
> if they have done some cruel things when they were kids. No one is 
> wholly good - or indeed wholly bad.

SSSusan:
And I think if you had left in a bit more of my post, you would have 
seen that my conclusion wasn't that Sirius was BAD.  He wasn't 
absolutely GOOD either.  He was a mixture of both elements.  What 
I've been saying in a series of posts about Sirius is that I 
originally wrote him off as a fun-loving good guy, and all I'm 
saying now is that I've considered more of the canon evidence that 
has been put forth here recently, and I've decided calling him JUST 
a "fun-loving good guy" is now not something I'm willing to do.  He 
did good things (like love Harry and go after Peter); he was fun-
loving at times; other times he was a jerk and incredibly selfish.

I "like" Snape, in the sense that he's fascinating and enigmatic and 
talented.  I "like" Sirius for many reasons, too--in fact, I still 
find him vastly more "likeable" than Snape.  But I don't find him 
wholly likeable, and I don't find his actions wholly 
excusable.  'Tis simply my opinion.

Siriusly Snapey Susan