Homosexuality in HP (was Re: Ringdear of the Marauders: Sirius or James?)

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 104932

> I wrote before:  
> > I think some, if not many, were speculating that Sirius had a 
crush on James, shrug. He strikes me as a typical bloke, jock, a 
> WOMANIZER than anything.
> > I'm very curious to see if JKR would explore on the issue of 
> > homosexuality. It will be most definitely interesting to see how 
> she will tackle this *addressed to children*. 
> 
> Katie responded:
> 
> Wayyy back, somebody posted a message to the effect of "I don't see 
> why JKR would put homosexual characters in the books. It wouldn't 
add anything to the series." A rather common sentiment, actually, and 
one I absolutely loathe. I mean, imagine putting any other minority 
in that sentence.
> 
> Anyway.. I read Sirius and Lupin as gay (in OOTP). Perhaps reading 
> too much between the lines, but it seems evident to me. I find your 
> comment about Sirius being a womanizer interesting, though, as I 
> don't see two words indicating such in the text. Certainly he 
*seems* like the type (Byronic, dangerous, good-looking) but I don't 
see any evidence.
> 
> I doubt she'd tackle the issue more directly than that, given the 
> conniptions fundamentalists went into over something like *magic* 
in the books. Poor JKR is in the uncomfortable position of writing a 
> book that children will read, but that is directed just as much at 
> adults.


Brenda now:

Reading your post now, I was reminded of this particular example from 
literature POV. Remember that scene in Shakespeare's Hamlet, with 
Hamlet's famous attack to his mother Gertrude?? It is widely believed 
by many scholars NOW that it is a classic literature moment of 
Oedipus Complex. A boy in love with his own mother and jealous of his 
father, as I am certain most of you are familiar with it. But my 
point is, did Shakespeare deliberately play on this idea? As far as I 
know, the concept of Oedipus Complex was not formally constructed 
till early 1900's by Sigmund Freud (oy, gotta love that dude!) and 
Shakespeare was what, born in 1564?

Surely Shakespeare had heard of the Oedipus story, as a great fan of 
Greek Mythology/philosophies and making numerous references. But I 
have no clue how knowledgeable he was to the psychoanalysis behind 
it. I am willing to bet that this concept was revolutionary by far to 
social beliefs and morals back then. Did Shakespeare intend Hamlet to 
face such dilemma -- we will never know, just speculating.

One thing that really stood out during my first round of OoP was when 
Harry snuck his head to the Grimmauld fireplace following Snape's 
Pensieve fiasco. After Harry mentions how James was playing with the 
Golden Snitch, Sirius adds, " `I forgot he used to do that', Sirius 
said AFFECTIONATELY" (sorry, paraphrased and emphasis added, but very 
certain this is the exact wording). Naturally you can imagine my 
eyebrows were dancing in my forehead, mid-way. O_o

Did Sirius really feel more than friendship towards James, and more 
importantly, did JKR create him that way? I agree with you Katie, it 
IS rather a "common sentiment" to say that homosexual characters 
wouldn't add anything to HP series. As for JKR's original intention 
on this matter, we can only speculate till we get a clear answer from 
her. My train of thought is, JKR started constructing the Potterverse 
and formulating major HP characters in 1991 or so. I was only Grade 3 
then (and what do they know, really ;P) but I don't recall 
homosexuality being major hot topic. I wonder if it had occurred to 
her to put this complex-and-minority aspect to the plot in children's 
literature. After all, she has put much more to each characters than 
we realize, just look at Dean Thomas' background! Perhaps Sirius had 
a line-up of ex-lovers (crossing my fingers, knocking on wood), or 
maybe, just maybe he was
 err
 *confused*.

My favorite scenario is that Sirius' name is cleared in the next book 
(and Wormtail exposed under Verisaterum), First Class Order of 
Merlin, and during his funeral, we see multitude of his ex-lovers 
weeping for him. (LOL, what kind of movies have I been watching, you 
might ask!) 

Katie, you are also right in saying that although Sirius does fit the 
profile of typical womanizer, there is no canon for that, YET. But 
the level of loyalty and devotion Sirius expressed towards James 
isn't entirely unusual, IMO. We do see this close bond between 
heterosexual males, I can think of King David and Jonathan from the 
Bible. Or even with my friends -- some are very loyal to their 
friends and whatnot, but also very much in love with their 
girlfriends!

But by stroke of unfortunate miseries if I HAD to choose a homosexual 
character from HP, I wouldn't go far as Lupin. If HPFG members have 
interpreted the bridge scene in PoA movie correctly, then Lupin was 
in love with Lily
 (also someone in this group mentioned a while 
back, that her fantasy was Lupin having affair with Narcissa –- 
bloody brilliant, I say!)

Bren, who will CRY her rivers if Sirius was gay! Addition to my "Must-
Do List", ask JKR if she intended it