Chapt. Discussion: Chapter 22 - Harry's Support

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 105130

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "delwynmarch" <delwynmarch at y...>
wrote:

Asian_lovr2:

To reference an old fable, I think we are both holding onto different
parts of the same elephant and refusing to let go.

Conclusion: we are at a stalemate. So, there isn't much point in going
on. Of course, I would never let that stop me. So, I have added some
minor comments below.

In case you didn't get my email, excellent post in defense of Percy.

 
> 
> Steve wrote :
> > Also, to your point that Harry wouldn't take any help that might 
> > have been offerred to him. Believe it or not, that's not the 
> > point,  ... it's about the comfort of knowing the help and support
> >  is there.
 

> Del replies :
> But it was always there ! Even when he was left alone at the
> Dursleys', he was still receiving letters from his friends. It was
> limited support I agree, but it was support nonetheless. Had Ron and
> Hermione been there in person, they would not have been able to tell
> him more. ..edited...

Asian_lovr2:
Let's ask Harry whether on not the support was there. In general, it
doesn't matter if it was there, the important factor is whether Harry
believes it is there and can take some comfort in that belief. 

As far as Ron and Hermione telling Harry anything special if they were
there in person, it's not the 'telling' part that is important, it's
the 'in person' part. Having company, companionship, someone to
distract you from your depressing thoughts and circumstances is very
comforting. Let's face it when most friends hang out together, they
don't talk about vital and important things, frequently the don't talk
at all, they just mope around together, but that 'together' part can
be tremendously benificial. 

Loneliness, isolation, uncertainty, and insecurity are the enemy, not
lack of information. When Harry came to Grimmauld Place, he wasn't
really given that much information. It was not the limited information
that gave him comfort, it was being around the people he cared about
and having the comfort of their presents. It was being reconnected to
the wizard world, and being reconnected to what was going on even if
he couldn't be a part of it or know what was happening.


> 
> Steve wrote :
> > None of my suggestions compromised the priorities of The Order in 
> > any way. Mrs. Figg was already there watching over Harry.... She 
> > did, in fact, invite Harry to tea several times, and if Harry had
> > know she was a Squib ... he would have been there in a second.

> Del replies :
> Harry was *dumped* at Mrs Figg's by the Dursleys when they went
> celebrating Dudley's birthday, back before Harry went to Hogwarts.
> Mrs Figg never invited him. It would have looked mightily odd if she
> started inviting him suddenly this summer, for no reason. 

Asian_lovr2:

Well, here is at least one point I can make with certainty.

----OotP - Am Ed HB Pg 2 ----
'... Mrs. Figg, a batty, cat-loving old lady from nearby Wisteria
Walk, amble slowly past. ... Harry was pleased that he was concealed
behing the bush: Mrs. Figg had recently taken to asking him around for
tea whenever she met him in the street.'

- - - End Quote - - - 

In the broader story, Harry was 'dumped' at Mrs. Figg as part of a
strategic plan by Dumbledore to have someone in the neighborhood watch
over Harry when the Dursleys weren't around. Part of Mrs. Figgs batty
old lady act was to make her more appealing to the Dursleys and less
appealing to Harry, and less appealing to Harry, in and of itself,
would have made her more appealing to the Durselys.

If Harry had know who Mrs Figg was he would have certainly accepted
those invitations. And being able to spend some time with her, even if
that sat in silence drinking cold tea and eating stale cake, would
have still offered some comfort to him. But it only helps if he knows
that she is connected to the wizard world, otherwise, there isn't much
incentive to associate with a batty old lady.


> 
> Steve wrote :
> > In addition, Harry protectors visible at Figg's place would not 
> > have had to compromise their secretly following Harry. ... These 
> > guards are already there in Little Whinging, it just a matter of 
> > whether the cloak is off or on.
> 
> Del replies :
> I don't think you understood the full extent of my explanation as to
> why Harry was left alone. The Order was trying to determine LV's
> intentions. So they left Harry very visibly alone as a *bait*. 
> ...edited...
> 


Asian_lovr2:

Well, you are right, I did miss your emphasis on that one point. That
said, sorry but I don't believe you. Clearly the Order was NOT hanging
Harry out as bait. They were trying to do everything possible to keep
Harry out of trouble with the Ministry, and to guard him from attack. 

Certainly, Voldemort and the Death Eaters were a concern, but one of
their highest priorities seem to be to keep Harry from doing any
magic. True a DE attack would be a very strong provocation for Harry
to perform magic, so I'm not discounting the dangers of Big-V and the
DE's. I'm just saying that I find the idea of the Order intentionally
hanging Harry out as bait as being extremely unlikely.

The primary purpose of Harry's guard were to protect him from attack,
and in the process prevent him from performing magic.

Tea at Figgs would have been far more effective than hiding while
Harry moped around the playpark.


> Steve wrote :
> > That would have certainly reduced his sense of isolation. That
> > certainly would have increased his comfort level. That certainly 
> > would have allayed his anxiety level. ... Contained at Figg's is 
> > certainly safer that wandering around in the  open.

> Del replies :
> If the Order's only goal had been to guard Harry, they would have
> sent a member to *live* at the Dursleys'. Or maybe just Ron and 
> Hermione for that matter : they could have stayed in Harry's room 
> all day long, and go out when an adult member came around to visit 
> them. Now *that*  would have made Harry's life easier. But it would 
> have thwarted the Order's *primary goal* : force LV to move.
> 


Asian_lovr2:

Well, we agree having company would have made Harry's life easier.
That's a step in the right direction. But I still can't buy 'Harry as
bait'. True, it is a logical extension that explains why things went
the way they did, but I still don't buy it. 

I agree that the Order was certainly distracted by priorities of the
moment, but in the grand scheme of things, Harry is an extremely high
priority, and it would have taken very little time, and in my opinion,
fewer additional resource to do it my way.


> Steve wrote :
> > I say once again- There is absolutely no need for Harry to be 100% 
> > cut off from the wizard world during the summer holiday. 
> 
> Del replies :
> And I say once again : there was probably a very good reason for him
> to be isolated. 
>
> By the way, Harry was no more cut off from the WW than his previous
> years, or than any other Muggle-born kid. 
> 

Asian_lovr2:

My statement that there is no reason for Harry to be cut off for weeks
at a time is an all encompassing statement; it spans all the books.
There has never been any need for Harry to have to wait until the
final two weeks of holiday before he can come to the Weasleys. Like I
said, an hour or two, a day or two, here and there at the beginning
and all through the summer holiday would do Harry a lot more good
than, two weeks at the end.

Ron and/or Hermione could have easily Floo to Mrs. Figg and joined
Harry while he wandered around or sat in the garden for an hour or
two.  Alternately, Harry could have Floo to the Burrow for an afternoon.

True in the beginning, it made sense to hide Mrs. Figg true identity
from Harry. But in my book, from the summer of PoA between 2nd and 3rd
year, it stopped making sense. 

For what it's worth, I do see your point, I just don't agree with it.

It's true the wizard world is not very 'touchy-feely' or very
emotionally supportive place, but given what a vitally significant
character Harry is in and to the wizard world, the tiniest little
effort would have been nice. Harry is already a tortured soul, why
compound that with more torture?

For what it's worth.

Steve/asian_lovr2