Perspective on threads like the homosexuality one

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 105175

Look what you people have brought me to. Searching my files for an old post
I'd sent. [If you'd forced me to the Yahoo search function, well, then we'd
have a real issue on our hands.] A bit of list history and perspective for
those of you who may not have been here long enough to have seen a
contentious thread.

I posted the following excerpt in February 2003, in a thread called "Reason
vs. Emotion." I do not reproduce it entirely, just some relevant points.
Because threads like the homosexuality one occur with regularity, they are
valid discussions, and they are also, to some, disturbing or offensive.

This current one reminds me strongly of the one about the interpretation of
GoF's graveyard scene as a rape. This was a lively discussion (worth finding
in the archives), and reactions ranged from enthusiastic "I thought so too,"
to utter disgust, to "huh? where did you get *that*?" As I recall, it got
loud, it may have gotten over the top, but it was a very good discussion in
terms of exploration of other viewpoints and interpretations. The fact is,
there are two parties involved in the act of reading. The writer is only
one. The reader is another. Both bring their own feelings, histories,
connotations, etc., to the work. So while the author's intent is of
interest, it does not (and should not, in my opinion) dictate what the
reader takes from the work. Articulate and well-constructed interpretations
are the heart of literary analysis and discussion.

But I digress. On to my excerpt. All comments are mine; I have removed those
of the person I was addressing. I have not altered the number of posters I
say the list now has, because of its amusing and historical value.

Saturday, February 01, 2003 6:13 PM
Re: [HPforGrownups] Reason versus Emotion

Debates *are* highly thought out intellectual arguments. However, people
getting hurt or offended is not inevitable. People get hurt or offended when
one of two things happens:

(a) the person making the argument takes a criticism of their *argument* as
a criticism of *them* as a person;
(b) the responder really does criticize the person and not their argument.

Both of these involve a failure to recognize or respect the distance between
a person and the argument the person is making. As an example:

Poster A: I think Snape is a vampire
Poster B: I think that theory is totally ludicrous because there's not
really any canon support and besides, *some* of the characters have to be
human, we're running out, Hagrid's half-giant and Lupin's a werewolf...

This is perfectly acceptable. This is debate. Poster A should not feel
attacked, even though their point has been challenged. But...

Poster A: I think Snape is a vampire
Poster B: I think anyone who thinks that is a total blithering idiot and
should not appear in public unaccompanied.

This is argument, but is not debate (at least not well done), and it is in
this second case where feelings get hurt. Justly so. And on this list,
generally, this Poster B would be Howlered or water ballooned. (It is not
broadcast to the list when this occurs, by the way, so the rest of the list
is often not aware of it, but the efforts of the Mods and elves to keep the
tone polite are continuous.)

Also--please don't confuse a topic being discussed with an attempt to
convert you. Most of us would be delighted if our charming but stubbornly
unswayable discussion partners would suddenly see the light and admit we
were right. [Like there's no *way* Snape is anything but human.] But they
don't, and they won't, and I'm not trying to make them. I'm just arguing my
side real loud, because it's what I think, and I'm an emotional being
myself.

The world JKR has created does not exist, just as Tolkien's, Lewis',
deLint's, etc., do not. But her world is incredibly well-constructed,
populated with vivid characters we recognize, interacting in situations we
can identify with, and denying this list the use of reason to dissect and
discuss that world is unfair and unreasonable.

An incredible infrastructure of guidelines and administrators has evolved on
this list, because the people who formed it loved to discuss JKR's
creations. They did not love flame wars, insults, or divisiveness. The
debates you find here are detailed, intricate, engrossing, etc. -- but not
rude. If personal attacks or hurt feelings happen, they are attended to.

That said--no moderator or elf anywhere can protect someone from being
oversensitive. If you know that you are, please take your own steps to
protect yourself. There are 5700+ members of this list now; and there are
reasonable rules to protect an atmosphere that reasonable people can debate
in. If you know from the outset that your sensitivity will not allow you to
move in this atmosphere unhurt, well, then, you knew that from the outset.

~Amandageist, the old, who recommends the old (very old) threads on gay
characters in HP to those brave enough to use the Yahoo search function