Snape and the meaning of courage

[huntergreen_3]

No: HPFGUIDX 105763

Katie wrote:
>>Snape subscribes to a certain world view shared by many people
(though not by most of the HP characters), namely, the idea
of "strong" and "weak" (inferior) people, and all that goes along
with that. It is well summed up in Snape's explanation of what he
considers to be "weak":
"Fools who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves, who cannot
control their emotions, who wallow in sad memories and allow
themselves to be provoked this easily..."
(I'd say it sounds like Snape is describing Sirius. I don't think
Snape fans and Sirius fans are opposing groups, but I DO think that
Snape and Sirius represent opposites in many ways.)<<

I've always thought that Snape was describing himself in his younger 
days (actually, it never occured to me that he was talking about 
Sirius, although it does describe Sirius pretty well). I think he was 
going off on a little tangent, some of which didn't really concern 
Harry. 

>>The question is, do you, as the reader, agree with Snape? I
certainly don't. I think Snape's coldness is one of his worst
qualities. And of course, Snape himself frequently fails to live up
to his standards (though who would want to??)<<

HunterGreen:
I think Snape wants to. I think Snape as an adolescent was the "weak" 
person he described, and that was how he let himself fall into the 
evil side of things. He was looking at things colored through his 
emotions -- specifically those of hating James and Sirius and feeling 
resentful toward Dumbledore. Of course we don't know what made him 
change sides, but clearly now he can accept being on the same side as 
people he absolutely despises (like Harry and Sirius).
As to his statement, it doesn't necessitate people being emotionless, 
just not dictated by their emotions. He was trying to impress the 
need to *control* emotion. (personally, I see a HUGE distinction 
between the two things; being a naturally introverted person, I don't 
really show my emotions very much, and have had times where people 
have acted like I simply don't have any).

>>This persona Snape's cultivated since his Hogwarts years *is*, I
think, simply a persona. It doesn't affect his deeper self,<<

Then what is his *real* persona? I think he's naturally sort of 
unpleasant and dark and a loner (which is not necessarily bad), he 
just found a way to steer those to his benefit as opposed to a 
detriment.

>> I'm sure that Snape's idea of courage has more to do with 
preservation of one's image of self-control and superiority above all 
else. That's not my idea of courage (though I'm sure there are some 
out there who would disagree with me.)<<

Maybe that's not his idea of courage, but rather one of his personal 
values? I think that Snape believes in courage in the face of 
*anything*. 

>>I think a few posters have asked "Why was Neville sorted into
Gryffindor, not Hufflepuff?" Put simply, I don't think real courage
has *any*thing to do with outward appearance and daily behavior. I
think it has much more to do with inner, personal strength,
something I think Neville possesses a great deal of. (This is *SO*
not valued enough at Hogwarts, except when it's in the form of
Harry. Dumbledore tosses off a couple of points to Neville in PS/SS,
and that's about all the public recognition he ever gets. Argh. But
that's another post altogether.) Neville's bravery regarding his
parents-- as well as his friends-- in particular amazes me. I think
Neville would fight to the death to defend his parents' honor.<<

I completely agree with you. Neville has sort of a quiet sort of 
bravery. He'll be afraid of Snape in class, but not afraid of going 
to the MoM and facing the people who destroyed his parents. Neville, 
then, is more afraid of humilation then (which, oddly enough, is a 
trait I'd say he shares with Snape). One of the things that bothers 
me the MOST about Neville is any time a comparison is made between 
him and Peter. (this has come up when people try to point out 
paraells between James et al's class and Harry's class) Except for 
being a little slow in class, Neville is *nothing* like Peter. 
Neville, despite all his little fears, has a sense of honor and 
courage at age eleven that even Lupin didn't have at age fifteen (I'm 
referring to the incident where he tried to stop the trio from going 
after the stone in PS/SS, and the pensieve--different situations, but 
similar emotions). I'm sure Neville will continue to grow into a more 
forefront character in the next two books.


>>So... yeah. This is all related, of course, to Gryffindor and the
sorting process. (We get an awfully "Gryffindor-centric" view of
Hogwarts in the books-- I wonder if the school is really biased this
way, or if that's just because the books are from Harry's viewpoint.
Or JKR's, for that matter.) Really, which house would most people
want to be sorted into?<<

The Gryffindor-centric thing sort of gets on my nerves a bit at times 
(and I think it mostly comes from JKR, because its clearly the house 
she thinks is best). Honestly, what I've wondered about, is if 
someone were more loyal than they were courageous, or (to put it 
another way) valued loyalty more than intelligence, despite being 
very bright, would they be placed into Hufflepuff? After GoF, I was 
thinking yes, but after the sorting hat song in OotP, it appeared 
that Hufflepuff was only the "leftover" house (which I very much hope 
isn't the case, because being hardworking, loyal, and valuing fair 
play are IMO superior traits than being ambitious or courageous or 
clever).


-Rebecca (who VERY MUCH needs to be getting to sleep)