Snape, Harry, Dumbledore, and flaws in the books

[huntergreen_3]

No: HPFGUIDX 105958

Pippin wrote:
> If Harry and Neville were showing some sign that they were
> suffering "emotional torment " from Snape, I agree Dumbledore
> would have to intervene. But they aren't. Dumbledore doesn't
> know that he is goodness, so he can't *know* that his values are
> superior to Snape's, though he doubtless believes they are.
>
> In the absence of empirical evidence that Snape's teaching
> methods are causing harm, what right has Dumbledore got to
> experiment on the students by demanding that the teachers
> abandon what are, in the WW, accepted ways of teaching?
>

dzeytoun responded:

>> If Dumbledore does indeed believe Snape to be in the wrong, 
standing by on the basis the "everyone else agrees with him" isn't 
very admirable. <<

Just because Dumbledore may not be in love with Snape's teaching 
methods, doesn't mean that he believes Snape is necessarily 'in the 
wrong', just that he disagrees. The fact that 'everyone else agrees 
with him' just means that Dumbledore has no external reason why he 
should counsel Snape.

>> And he has shown himself to be more than willing to impose his 
will on people for the "greater good" in other contexts (i.e. leaving 
Harry with the Dursleys). <<

But that was quite a different situation. In fact as dire as it 
comes, involving life and death. This is only hurt feelings in a 
potions class. As long as the children are still learning and none of 
them are getting *seriously* affected by his snide remarks there's no 
reason for Dumbledore to impose his will upon Snape.

>>Does the wizarding world favor Snape's teaching methods? We only
have evidence of ommission, that is that no one complains that we
know of. I would be more convinced if we saw people, even Slytherin
parents, actively praising Snape's methods. Then I would be willing
to believe that Dumbledore faces a political block (for instance on
the Board of Governors) he might not be able to openly defy.<<

Lucious Malfoy is quite fond of him, and I doubt he would be if he 
thought Snape was doing a horrible job teaching his son. And Draco 
likes him quite a bit as well, even wanted him to be headmaster 
during CoS. Also, Umbridge points out how advanced the class is, and 
that's the only critisizm she can find. I know she's not the best 
judge of teaching methods, but she is a representative of the MoM. 
Actually, the fact that her classes are almost as snide as Snape's 
(and she would be the one who'd know about approved teaching 
methods), is an indication that Snape's methods are at least allowed, 
if not favored.

>>I think the disaster of Occlumency provides plentiful evidence that 
Snape's teaching methods have resulted in a very unfortunate and 
dangerous situation.<<

But was that Snape's fault or Harry's fault? Remember, Lupin used a 
similar teaching method when he taught Harry the patronus charm, he 
was just nicer about it. He told Harry the incantation, told him how 
to do it (focus on a happy memory), and let the boggart turn into the 
dementer over and over again until Harry was finally able to do it. 
Harry failed many times and got rather exhausted in the process. The 
occulmency lessons were similar: there was no incantation involved, 
so Snape told Harry how to do it (clearing your mind), and used 
legimency on Harry over and over again. Harry did fail many times, 
but half-suceeeded at least once (with the sheild charm), but then 
the fact that he wasn't really trying came into play. Is it just that 
Lupin is *nicer* that its assumed that it must be Snape's teaching 
method that failed? Because the method is the same (as is the way 
Harry learned to throw off the imperious curse....no one really 
taught him to do it, he just had it on him and learned by doing), its 
just that in the case of the protonus charm, Harry *wanted* to learn 
it. He didn't care half as much about occulmency, which, IMO, is 
*Dumbledore's* fault.

Out of curiousity, what is it that you would like to see Dumbledore 
do with Snape? Fire him or force him to change his methods? Because 
if he fired him Dumbledore might be faced with the situation of not 
having another potions master to take his place (not to mention Snape 
would no longer be nearby if he needed him, something that has proved 
VERY useful in the past), and if he forced him to change his methods, 
Snape almost certainly refuse, and then be fired. 


-Rebecca