[HPforGrownups] Prefects and points

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 105973

On 13 Jul 2004 at 5:51, Cathy Drolet wrote:

> Shaun Hately said:
> 
> "Yes, taking points is a prefect's duty at Hogwarts, and it does 
> worry me slightly than Ron doesn't even seem to know he has the 
> power. But it's possible that he simply hasn't had the need to use 
> it. He may be getting results in other ways. We don't really get to 
> see much of what he does."
> 
> 
> Cathy
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't buy this for a second.  JKR is wrong..she made
> another mistake.  I don't know where the mistake came in, but it is
> not Ron's fault as she claims.  

Yes, it does look like she was wrong - but at the time I posted 
what you've quoted, I hadn't yet seen anybody citing the correct 
text. I just assumed the FAQ was accurate.

> In the OotP, in the encounter between Malfoy (prefect), Macmillan
> (prefect), Ron (prefect), Hermione (prefect), and Harry, Malfoy says
> he's going to dock some house points.  It is Ernie Macmillan who says
> only teachers can dock house points.  Ron agrees, with, yeah, we're
> prefects, too.  Malfoy ALSO agrees that prefects can't take house
> points, but members of the Inquisitorial Squad can.  Hermione is there
> for the whole conversation.  Heaven knows if Prefects could take House
> Points Hermione would know and would have said so, if not earlier to
> Ron, then at least at this point.  Her silence is agreement.  Four of
> the eight 5th year prefects were in this scene and all of them agreed,
> verbally or by silence that only teachers can dock house points.  
> Hermione has never once tried to dock house points from the Twins or
> anyone else.  House points, while not overly important to the Twins is
> at least another tack she could have taken, but she went straight from
> them saying, oh yeah, just try to put us in dentention 

> 

> Now, as for the CoS Percy business, perhaps, 6th year prefects can
> dock house points.  Percy would be in 6th year by that time.  Or, more
> likely, he said he was docking 5 points on Ron's behalf, but was going
> to run to McGonnagal, tell her what happened and get her to actually
> dock the points. 

Actually, my view, which I've mentioned before, is that to 
reconcile these problems, I think a possible solution is that 
prefects are allowed to take points from their own house, but are 
not permitted to take them from other houses.

This would match Percy being able to take points from Ron, but 
would make Draco's power to take points from those in other houses 
new and unusual.

It would also make a lot of sense to me for such a restriction to 
exist. In a school where Draco Malfoy can become a prefect, you'd 
need some control to prevent Slytherin winning the House Cup each 
year just by stealing points (OK - maybe some Slytherin's could be 
honest and fair - but you'd need all six to be, to prevent this 
happening!).

As prefects are an appointment based on the House, I would think 
it's quite likely their main powers are house based.

An inability to take away point from another house would also 
explain how Draco gets away with this:

"'And what're you doing down here, Weasley?' he sneered.

Percy looked outraged.

'You want to show a bit more respect to a school prefect!' he
said. 'I don't like your attitude!'

Malfoy sneered and motioned for Harry and Ron to follow him. Harry 
almost said something apologetic to Percy but caught himself just 
in time."

(CoS, p.164)

If Percy could have taken points from Draco, I am *certain* he 
would have done so there.

It also *kind of* addresses the mistake in Order of the Phoenix.

"'Afraid I'm going to have to dock a few points from Gryffindor and 
Hufflepuff,' he drawled.  

'It's only teachers who can dock points from houses, Malfoy,' said 
Ernie at once.  

'Yeah, we're prefects, too, remember?' snarled Ron.  

'I know prefects can't dock points, Weasel King,' sneered Malfoy. 
Crabbe and Goyle sniggered. 'But members of the Inquisitorial 
Squad-'  

'The what' said Hermione sharply."

If Ernie *meant* to say "It's only teachers who can dock points 
from *other* houses", and the others simply assumed that that is 
what he meant, this scene fit in a bit more neatly.

I mean, if he misspoke, nobody is likely to interrupt and say: "you 
mean other houses" - it's not a major point in the situation they 
are discussing.

And it is interesting he says: "points from houses" rather than 
just "points" - the two words are redundant unless they have 
meaning.

I think it's easier to assume that Ernie simply slightly misspoke - 
and in a conversation between four prefects, they all understood 
what he meant, so nobody bothered to make an issue of it.

That still means there's a discrepancy with JKRs FAQ answer - but 
as it seems clear she was relying on a faulty memory of what she 
wrote, I don't think that's that surprising.

Maybe Ron (in her mind) hasn't been authoritarian, and hasn't taken 
any points - so to her, when asked this question, she thinks "Why 
did I write that - it must be because I thought he might not know 
this."


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
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