Snape, Harry, Dumbledore, and flaws in the books

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 105997

>>> Finwitch wrote:
> Snape's not nasty at Draco, is he? Or Slytherins for that matter? 
> Mostly, he takes his own grudge from decades back on Harry and 
> (occasionally) on Neville. <<<

Brenda now:

But Slytherin students don't give Snape reasons to treat them nasty, 
do they? They appear to be decent students in Potions class (in 
Snape's eyes), following him with much respect. Draco clearly admires 
Snape (he wants him to be Hogwarts Headmaster) and I doubt *any* 
teacher can resist to show even slightest favorism towards his "pet" 
students.

I do believe Snape is 'acting' to a degree, as suggested by some 
posters. The fact that he despises Harry probably makes it much 
easier for him to go along with it. I highly doubt that he will like 
Harry given different circumstances, but his actions seem to be 
*exaggerated* to entertain the Malfoy & co. He probably justifies his 
verbal abuse that way, it's a win-win situation for Snape.


>>> Finwitch; I disagree. Snape told Harry to clear his mind, but he 
NEVER told him how to do that. In fact, I think Harry was unable to 
concentrate - to clear his mind. He was too tired due to lack of 
sleep and loss of blood (and that's Dumbridge's fault), and only way 
Harry managed to go on, was living on adrenaline until he finally 
fainted during OWL exam. He even told Snape he had trouble with 
that... (AND Snape was making it harder). <<<


Brenda: I agree with you to some degree. Although I myself believe 
the failure of Occlumency lessons lies more heavily on Harry's part, 
Snape did not give Harry instruction as to *HOW* to do it. But 
comparing Snape's Occlumency lessons to Lupin's Patronus lessons 
doesn't make sense to me (Harry *initiated* the lesson, he liked 
Lupin, etc.) -- Crouch's Imperio lessons are more suitable for 
comparison. I wonder if Snape heard about Harry being able to fight 
off Imperius curse and presumed he didn't need to be told how. Seems 
like a similar branch of magic to me...


>>> Finwitch; Further, not only were Snape's feelings and immaturity 
getting into the way of Harry's learning... I think Harry was right: 
Snape was making it _worse_. <<<

Brenda: Didn't Hermione suggest that perhaps it's like fighting a 
cold? That you *need* to be sick first to be able to fight it? Nice 
parallel running through physical vs. mental immune system, don't you 
think?


>>> Finwitch: I think that, someone bearing Voldemort's mark makes 
this Legilimens-contact on Harry, who ALSO has a link... well, I 
think Voldemort got involved - or at least, LV's obsession for the 
prophecy got trough first time, because Snape's Dark Mark 
strenghtened the signal. (I think this also happened when Harry's 
scar hurt during the first book, when Snape AND Quirrelmort were 
there (While Voldemort was hiding inside Quirrell's turban)! (And 
that rat...) The scar never hurt during Harry's DADA class, after 
all.. <<<

Brenda: That is a very interesting suggestion, Finwitch. The Dark 
Mark-VM-Harry's Scar connection, I like it. Remember when the scar 
hurt very painfully, JKR sometimes described it as (something to the 
effect of) 'it was almost ripping his forehead'? I wonder if this 
will actually happen if he gets next VM and DEs for long enough.


>>> Finwitch: Harry was able to put down LV's hatred (which 
Dumbledore feared and thus avoided Harry) because well, Harry LIKES 
Dumbledore, nor would he ever willingly kill anyone, so it's easy to 
recognise as NOT his. <<<

Not to mention his grieving for loss of Sirius.


>>> Finwitch:
> Harry wasn't, however, able to put down LV's obsession about the 
> corridor - partly because he was *curious* about it (Albus' old 
> error; he should have told Harry... so Harry would have either not 
> been curious or ASKED about it, rather than seeking out for 
> himself...) <<<

Brenda: [afraid of opening *that* can of worms...]

I still think it was better that DD told Harry late than early (at 
least AFTER Harry practiced Occlumency to some degree). I have argued 
this before and gotten other opinions, but not to my satisfaction. 
The content of prophecy is overwhelming, extremely so for a young 
teenage wizard (no matter how powerful he is). I believe knowing it 
(without being able to control his mind/emotions) would have left 
Harry extremely vulnerable to Voldemort. I think VM could have easily 
access the intel if Harry learned it beforehand. At least, this way, 
VM still doesn't know the full content of the prophecy.

Also, *even if* DD had told Harry of the prophecy, he wouldn't 
necessarily say "oh by the way, the record is kept at DoM and VM 
might trick your mind for you to go after it". After all, DD didn't 
realize just how DEEPLY Harry and VM's connection runs. It was only 
after Arthur's near death experience that both parties realized it, 
and was too late by then. Sigh, ONLY IF Harry had told Sirius about 
his Frank-Bryce dream in the beginning of GoF...


Brenda