Snape, Harry, Dumbledore, and flaws in the books

[huntergreen_3]

No: HPFGUIDX 106074

Salit wrote:
>>Harry had the exact same problem when he was studying the
Patronus. He failed during the lessons because he was torn between his
desire to overcome the dementors vs his desire to hear his parents'
voice. When studying occlumency Harry was torn between his desire to
not be controlled by LV and his curiosity about what the black door 
hid.<<

Yes, but with the patronus he had the reason of not wanting to fall 
off his broom during quidditch again, whereas he had nothing like 
that pushing him with occulmency. He only had people *telling* him it 
was important. 

>> However, by its very nature occlumency is harder for Harry to 
master. It requires one to empty themselves of all emotions (if we 
can trust Snape's explanation on the matter). A patronus calls for 
mastering up your happiest thoughts - i.e. use your emotions in a 
positive manner. Harry is a very emotional person and I doubt could 
have mastered occlumency even with a better suited teacher. With 
Snape he had the added problem of having very strong (negative) 
feelings towards the teacher, which made it doubly hard. <<

Agreed. I doubt Harry had much of a chance learning Occulmency. 
However, although his negative feelings toward Snape made it harder 
for him to empty himself of emotion, it did give him at least one 
incentive to attempt to learn it, that being that he was mildly 
afraid of Snape. (however, that wasn't enough to make him practice, 
just enough to make him feel guilty about not pracising).

HunterGreen previously:
> That's true. And that's one of the things that really bothered me
> when I was reading OotP. Harry and the others had no real plan
> besides just walzting into the MoM, as though a bunch of kids could
> save Sirius from *death eaters*.

Salit replied:
>> Well, this actually makes sense to me. For one thing, they *are* 
kids. One should not expect them to make the same level of planning 
and preparation you'd expect from adults. <<
Which is why I understand Ron and Harry rushing off, but Hermione? I 
know she voiced *some* concerns about it, but did she ever stop Harry 
and ask how they're supposed to save Sirius when they get there?

>> For another, there was simply no time - they were dealing with one 
crisis after the next. Besides, they did not know that there were 
death eaters waiting. The vision (which remember, Harry took for a 
true one) showed noone but Sirius and Voldemort were at the DoM. <<

Its a reasonable assumption that Voldemort would have at least one DE 
with him, but even if he didn't he's still *Voldemort*. 

HunterGreen previously:
> in this instance they should have tried to find another adult
> besides Snape to tell the story to (I'm sure they could have found a
> way to contact at least Ron's parents).

Salit:
>>How? It would have to be a member of the order (Sirius was viewed as
an insane murderer by anyone else) and all means of communication
except for Umbridge's office were controlled. Not only that, it would
mean that Harry would have to reveal to the incredulous adult that not
only is Voldemort after Sirius, but that he, Harry, has seen it in his
dreams - he'd be lucky to avoid St. Mungo's after that! :-) He should
have thought of Snape, true, but in light of their last encounter one
would tend to forgive Harry for passing that option over.<<

I mean not in the school, but when they left. Instead of going to the 
MoM, maybe they should have gone to the burrow or GP. They went from 
not being able to contact anyone *at school* to rushing off to the 
MoM, without thinking of trying to contact anyone outside of school 
instead.
I can understand him not thinking of Snape or the mirror (I forgot 
about both when I was reading the book as well), I just think they 
abandoned their search for an adult too quickly. Again, if it was 
just Harry, I could understand, he was the one who saw the vision, I 
don't really blame him for wanting to rush off to the MoM, but it was 
up to Ron and Hermione who were closer to being clear-headed to put 
together how bad of an idea that was (bad not just because it could 
be a fake vision--which it was of course--but bad because if it was 
real, there'd be nothing they could do about it). If they had 
encountered Voldemort torturing Sirius, he would have rather easily 
killed all three of them (well, maybe not Harry, but Ron and Hermione 
don't have any protections on them). 

Salit:
>> The failure was Dumbledore's (as he readily and rightly admitted 
it at the end). Once the crisis came, there was no real way for Harry 
and friends to act differently (except sadly for talking to Snape or
remembering the parting christmas gift that Sirius gave Harry). <<

HunterGreen:
Yes it was. Dumbledore (or someone acting on his orders) should have 
given Harry a way to contact the order in an emergency. Its part of 
the folly all the adults around Harry have in OotP: treating him like 
he's nothing more than a fifteen-year-old. Perhaps someone like 
*Ginny* wouldn't need to be told some way to contact people in an 
emergency, but they all know how often trouble finds Harry (and in 
this case there was reason to believe that Voldemort was *planning* 
on doing something with Harry), but he was just left to fend for 
himself, as though he would know how to deal with it in an adult way, 
when the reason they were keeping him in the dark in the first place 
was because of his age.