Penseive and Underestimated Weasleys

[Amey Chinchorkar]

No: HPFGUIDX 106170

-	aggiepaddy said:
-	<<<I believe that the pensieve allows the person to 'see' the scene in 
-	an objective light.  Somehow, don't ask how we are talking magic 
-	here, it manages to detach the emotional aspect of the memory and 
-	just shows the facts, like a video recording. <<<
-	Nocturnus, delurking here.
-	That in the assumption that objective thinking do exist. I had the feeling that JK ROWLING has a major flaw in her epistemic point of view. There is no possibility of an objective, or neutral, knowledge. An aseptic approach to the world is virtually impossible for human beings. (I'm following, Berger & Luckmann, Maturana & Varela)

Amey:
But Dumbledore says, it helps him see patterns, nothing about thinking or memory. Patterns of what? In what? In his memory, maybe? (In that case, it would be very useful to Sherlock Holmes ;D). But if he wants to see patterns, it has to be objective, because you won’t see patterns if everything is to be tainted by your own POV. So it will be only useful to get the patterns of his thinking may be.
Or maybe all the memories he has stored there are the ones for which you don’t feel anything. e.g. the trials, emotions of Dumbledore himself can’t taint what happened there. Or in case of Prophesy or bertha, what Dumbledore feels about them won’t change what happened. Maybe Dumbledore uses that only to store these kind of memories (objective memories from his POV).
 But Snape used them for storing his memories for which he was feeling some emotion, and maybe it showed it that way. I know we don’t have canon for this, but there is some difference in the way Snape and Dumbledore uses penseive. Maybe that changes what you see. 

-	moonmyyst
-	If someone is lucky enough to be picked to go that is on this list, that person will possibly have a chance to ask a question.  If so, there will only be one.  What question would everyone like to have answered most?  Remember "is Harry going to die" is pretty pointless.  What question that has a good chance of actually being answered would everyone like to ask?
-	I am going to have to think about this one myself.  Shipping questions are pretty much out.  She has already said that it is obvious and will not go further.  Mark Evans is answered.  Dead is dead.  hhhmmmm.....

Amey:
I can think of two questions
1. How objective or subjective is the penseive memory (Sorry, I can’t rest till I get the answer)
2. What was the actual prank? How Snape was shut up about it? Or are we going to read about it in next books?

-	Del
-	To be honest, I was dismayed when I read that part about Harry
-	thinking that he would have to commit *murder* or be killed. It was
-	such a pathetic attempt at making us pity Harry even more ! We've
-	known for a long time, way before OoP, that it would end up like that,
-	and Harry knew it too deep inside, it was obvious. But it was never
-	considered murder, either by him or by us the readers. So where did
-	that come from, honestly ?!

Amey:
Harry didn’t know that, nobody knew about prophesy (except JKR) before OOtP. There were other ways in whoch LV could be forced to go away, than murder. Also, the prophesy made Harry consciously think of killing LV or be killed. Killing Diary!Tom was not a conscious choice, it was done in moment of it. And after all, hit was a shadow, not a person. But LV is a person, however twisted he may be.
Even in war, if a soldier has to kill other person, he hates it, even if it is his duty. 

-	From: "nkafkafi" <nkafkafi at yahoo.com>
-	Subject: Unappreciated Weasleys (was: Prefects and points)
-	Thanks to Del and several other members that recently brought up 
-	something that has been bothering me too: JKR insulting treatment of 
-	Ron. Is he just a comic relief? IMO the problem is actually slightly 
-	different: In OotP Ron actually DOES many worthy things, only they 
-	are very well hidden. Also I'd like to point out that this pattern 
-	(minus the comic relief) is also common to his sister Ginny.  

Amey:
Really great analysis!!! I would like to add one more point here. In GoF and OOtP, Ginny came out of her silent brooding about the hero with green eyes, and started thinking about it rationally. That has made her more positive and is giving us more insight into what she really is (I definitely like the way she is growing up to be an important member of DA and also the fourth person of the trio in many ways). Her character is really growing up, and she is closer to Harry than when she used to shut up and do some stupid things when he was around. If I remember right, Harry tells her that he wants to talk to Sirius after the Penseive incident, right?
I am not rooting here for H/G ship, but what I am saying is that, Ginny is coming into her own. Maybe that will be the way Ron will go in next books, still no.2 to Harry, but not overshadowed by him. And being a prefect has given him some time on his own (and with Hermione if you want) to come into his own. I hope, he also develops the same way as Ginny has.

Amey, who is admiring Ginny more and more after Yule Ball






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