Bertha, Florence, Frank, Alice, Bella, Rudolphus... and Snape?

[nkafkafi]

No: HPFGUIDX 106279

Neri originally wrote:
I've just found the canon proof that Bellatrix is older than Sirius
by 2 years. 

Carol responds:
I've posted on this topic before at least twice--no doubt you skipped
the thread or overlooked the information because my posts tend to be
long. :-) 

Neri again:
Oops, sorry. I knew I shouldn't have made such a fuss about it
 

Carol:
In any case, I agree with you except that I interpret the
age difference as *three* years. Harry is just *barely* fifteen. He's
just completed his fourth year and is about to enter his fifth. If
Sirius was the same age when he last saw Bellatrix, it would have been
at the end of her seventh year, when she finished school, at the time
Sirius finished his fourth--not his fifth, when he would be sixteen or
about to turn sixteen. (Harry doesn't reach that point until the *end*
of OoP, about nine months after the scene you're referring to.) So
Bellatrix would be seventeen or eighteen when she left school; Sirius
barely fifteen or about to turn fifteen. That's a three-year
difference, not two (for the other Marauders and Severus as well as
Sirius).

Neri: 
You're right, but I can never make these calculations in my head, so 
I naturally assume the characters (in this case Sirius) don't either, 
and so there's no point taking them on their word anyway. Two or 
three years are not a big difference in our case.

Carol:
Otherwise, I agree with you. I've always thought that Severus was the
youngest member of the gang, "adopted" because of his precocity in
casting hexes. It stands to reason that Rodolphus is a little older
than Bellatrix, and Rabastan, who appears to be part of a threesome
with his brother and future sister-in-law, is probably Bellatrix's
age, though of course I'm guessing here. I also think that Lucius
Malfoy, five years older than Severus and presumably a sixth year when
Severus entered Hogwarts, was the original leader of this gang, just
as he's the leader at the MoM (with Bellatrix an unofficial second in
command, at least in her own view).

It all fits with the idea that Severus was the youngest member of the
"gang of Slytherins," all of whom had finished school by the time of
the Pensieve incident, which explains why he was alone when James and
Sirius confronted him at the end of their fifth year. 

Neri:
In this case there is indeed a difference between three and two 
years. If it's three, then Bella wasn't at Hogwarts at all at the 
time of the underpants incident and couldn't have come to Severus' 
aid.

BTW, the Lexicon seems very adamant that Bertha is only two years 
older than Snape and the Marauders. I don't know why they are so 
sure. I would think that "a few years older than me" (in Sirius 
words) is more likely to be three than two. But I'm not a native 
English speaker so I could be wrong.

And while we are on this subject, the Lexicon gives Narcissa's time 
at Hogwarts as identical to that of Lucius (in the list of Slytherin 
students). Does someone have an idea where did they pull that from? 
Maybe from some chat or interview? My impression is that Narcissa is 
closer to the Marauders age.

Carol:
And it ties in,
too, with Snape as Malfoy's "lap dog." When did Sirius see them
together? At Hogwarts, when Severus was a child and Lucius was a
teenager. What does "lap dog" mean? Little pet. The "baby" of the 
gang.

Neri:
It could be the way this nickname originated, but most of the time of 
the Marauders in Hogwarts, Lucius wasn't around, so and there wasn't 
any reason to keep it. I believe the "lapdog" relates to the special 
connection Snape created with Lucius after the war. See #105279 

Carol:
So I agree with you that the members of the gang were all older than
Severus and that one of the older boys was more likely than he to be
the one who kissed Florence and hexed Bertha. (Unless Sevvie was
precocious in that respect, too, and we have no evidence to indicate
that he was.) Seriously, I think Rodolphus is a good candidate, hexing
Bertha to make sure she doesn't tell Bellatrix. Or maybe it was the
unattached Rabastan. Certainly not the insufferably horrible Walden
Macnair, if his adult self is any indication.

Neri: 
I recently had an idea it might be Evan Rosier. To see why, find him 
in the Lexicon and check the origin of his name. 

Carol:
But where does the idea of Florence as Death Eater come in? I've
missed a lot of posts and evidently missed that one. Can you direct me
to the right thread?

Neri:
Gaah, can't find this post now. The idea was something like: We don't 
see Florence around. There's an unaccounted dead DE. So it could be 
Florence. I personally still hope to find Florence alive. But if it 
was Rudolphus who kissed her and Bella got the word, the chances are 
slim ;-)

Neri