Percy... & the Nature of Ambition

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 107079

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Magda Grantwich
<mgrantwich at y...> wrote:

> > --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Magda Grantwich wrote:
> >> Do people really see Percy as ambitious?  I don't.  He doesn't
> >> crave power - he craves recognition.  

> > Kristen:
> > 
> > I have to disagree, slightly.  Not about Percy being a prat, but
> > that he is not ambitious.  ...in my mind, that Percy is definitely 
> > ambitous.  He is probably ALSO looking for attention and 
> > recognition that he gets from no one other than his Mother.  

> Magda:
> 
> None of those examples proves that Percy is ambitious for POWER - 
> ... He's ambitious to prove himself so that people in positions of 
> authority will clap him on the shoulder and tell him what a fine 
> young man he is.  
> 
> I repeat, Percy doesn't know what real power is, ... isn't striving 
> to attain it or use it. It's his desire for approbation and praise 
> that makes him vulnerable to manipulation... ,...  There's no guile 
> ..., no deep secret plotting or scheming.  ... That Ron thinks he'd 
> throw the family to the Dementors to get ahead shows us that Ron 
> doesn't really understand what power's all about either.
> 
> Magda


Asian_lovr2:

This debate is not about whether Percy has ambition, but the NATURE of
that ambition. Ambition is not always a negative thing. 

Percy is most certainly driven by a need for recognition and approval,
a need the started when he was very young, and has now become very
ingrained in him. I think this need for approval is part of Percy's
role as the 'Good Son'... 

The Original 'Good Son' post-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/43283

Percy isn't just seeking approval, but is desperate to get that
approval by doing things right, and starting as a young boy the only
measure he had of 'right' were rule and regulations. So he holds
firmly to those rules as his standard for self-determination. Working
under the false permise that if you always do things 'right' you will
never be wrong.

In the past when we discussed the nature of right and wrong, and
morality, we discovered that ridgedly obeying the rules is very low on
the scale of moral development. Why? Because if all you do is blindly
follow the rules, then you conviniently put yourself in a position
where you never have to debate a moral dilemma, you never have to make
a moral decision. 

In addition, you conviniently never have to challenge the rules
because you've already given your thinking process over to other
people, the rule makers. That might seem reasonable in a perfect
world, but in the real world, rules and rulers are corrupt. Rules are
created for self-serving purposes, and are frequently changed to suit
the whim of those who rule.

Given that rules are corrupt, it is a far more morally developed
person who makes an internal moral decision based on their preception
of right and wrong rather than blindly following the rules.

This is an internal lesson that Hermione has learned, although it took
her a while, but a lesson that Percy has not. Although, given the
circumstances, I think it is a lesson Percy will learn in the hardest
of ways.

Back to Percy-The Good Son and his need to do things right. From one
perspective, Percy has done what is right. He stood by his duly
elected/appointed government and he followed the hard evidents; he
obeyed the rules. From a ridged rules-based perspective, he has done
nothing wrong. It must be immensely frustrating for Percy trying to
resolve how doing it right could go so wrong. I conclude the
frustration and moral dilemma will lead him to moral enlightenment.

Relative to Percy new job, I'm in the camp that lays a great deal of
the blame on Arthur for their falling out. If Arthur understood Percy,
he would have realized that congradulating Percy first, then
delicately explaining to him that Percy was now in a compromising
postion. That being close to the Family and therefore Dumbledore, the
was a chance that Fudge may come to the conclustion that he can use
Percy to get information. Taking this approach makes it sound like the
promotion and job appointment are one thing, and Fudge's idea to use
Percy as a spy is an after thought unrelated to Percy getting the job.
But that's no how it happened. The wizard world is not known for it's
subtlity or tact.

Given how things did go, I side with the person who suggested that
Percy cut himself off from his family to prove to himself, mostly, and
to everyone else that he got and could keep the job on his own merit. 

Since Percy as a Spy can work both ways, Percy could just as easily
spy ON Fudge as FOR Fudge. The only way Percy can be sure there are no
ulterior motives on anyone's part, is to cut himself of completely and
totally. Even a Christmas gift could be construde as Molly trying to
get on Percy's good side so she could get information. 

Now Percy is faced with perhaps his greatest moral dilemma; does he
stubbornly (damn, those Weasleys are stubborn) maintain his distance,
or does he go back to his family humilated asking for forgiveness.
Humiliation is not the easiest choice to make, but I think Percy will
eventually come around. He certainly does love his family, and they,
deep down, do love him, and as the old adage goes 'love conquers all'.

Once again, for those seeking deeper insight into Percy-

From:  "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...>
Date:  Sun Jan 11, 2004  2:16 pm
Subject:  Ron is like Percy (was Chapter Discussion...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/88447
Compares Ron and Percy's character.

From:  "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...>
Date:  Mon Dec 15, 2003  1:52 pm
Subject:  Re: Is it all Percy's fault? NOT!!!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/87132
A newer variation of my "Good Son" Theory.

From:  "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...>
Date:  Mon Nov 17, 2003  4:40 pm
Subject:  BRAVO! - Percy Weasley under ... Imperius Curse?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/85258

From:  "manawydan" <manawydan at n...>
Date:  Mon Nov 17, 2003  2:13 pm
Subject:  Re: Percy Weasley under Lucius' Imperius Curse?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/85244
Written by a avid Percy Defender, and stimulus for the post listed above.

From:  "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...>
Date:  Thu Oct 30, 2003  5:06 pm
Subject:  Re: Where Percy got Scabbers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/83893
A 'logical extension' analysis of the likely circumstance in which
Percy aquired Scabbers.

From:  "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...>
Date:  Mon Jun 30, 2003  4:42 pm
Subject:  Re: Percy - The Good Boy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/66159
Recommended for all Percy Defenders. One of the original post of my
'Good Son' Theory.

From:  "manawydan" <manawydan at n...>
Date:  Mon Jun 30, 2003  12:58 pm
Subject:  Re: [HPforGrownups] Percy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/66065

From:  Kathleen Kelly MacMillan <kathleen at c...>
Date:  Fri Jan 5, 2001  9:01 pm
Subject:  RE: [HPforGrownups] Percy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/8631
The beginning of a long Percy thread that splinters into several
Sub-Threads.

Just a thought.

Steve/asian_lovr2