Dudley Demented (???)

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 107266

Snow (me) previously wrote:
>> Lets look at what young wizards of Dudley's age had to say about
the experience of meeting a dementor and match it to what Dudley
himself had to say when the dementor attacked him.
<Young wizards' quotes snipped>
> Now lets match this up with what muggle Dudley had to say:
>
> OOP pg. 30 "All dark," Dudley said hoarsely, shuddering. "Everything
> dark. And then I h-heard
things. Inside m-my head
"
> OOP PG.31 "horrible," croaked Dudley. "Cold. Really cold."
> " " " " "Felt
felt
felt
as if
as if
" "As if you'd never be
> happy again," Harry supplied dully. "Yes," Dudley whispered, still
> trembling.
>
> Dudley in just the few statements he made expressed the sentiments 
of
> all the other child wizards. In fact Dudley's reaction was more like
> Harry and Ginny even Malfoy. Dudley threw up and was shaking, 
feeling
> extremely faint. Even some of the young wizards like Fred, George,
> Ron and Neville were not affected to "this" degree.
>
> Now take a look at the attack on Dudley from the dementor:
>
> OOP pg 19 Dudley was curled on the ground, his arms clamped over his
> face; a second dementor was crouching low over him, gripping his
> wrists in its slimy hands, prizing them slowly, almost lovingly 
apart

>
> The dementor took Dudley's hands away from his face. Dudley may have
> had his eyes shut tight but he must have felt the dementor grab at
> his wrists and pry his arms away from his face. How could he not
feel the tugging of something forcing his arms away from his face so
that he could be kissed?
><snip>
> Here lies the conflict; did Dudley see the dementor? Did he have his
> eyes shut? What is meant specifically by "feel their presence"; is
> it "sense" their presence or "physically" feel their presence? If it
> is sense their presence then why did Dudley obviously feel something
> pry his arms from his face?
> <snip>
. Dudley appears to be a hidden wizard to me.

Carol responds:
Although these are interesting passages, Dudley doesn't say that he
*saw* the Dementors, as he surely would have done if he'd really seen
them. Instead he reports *hearing* voices in his head. All he *saw*
was darkness.

As numerous posters have pointed out, Harry shouted to him to keep his
mouth closed no matter what. Dudley, if you recall, has been the
victim of magical mischief twice, once involving his mouth (tongue)
and he's protecting that vulnerable part of him, IMO, partly because
of that memory and partly because of Harry's words. Remember that in
GoF he claps his hands over his bottom to protect it--his previous
experience with magic involved a pig's tail.

As for feeling their presence versus feeling their hands prying his
hands away from his mouth, I think they're two different things.
Presumably Muggles are not the Dementors' normal prey, just as Muggles
don't have Doxies in their curtains. Any Muggle whose soul had been
sucked wouldn't have been able to report the experience of feeling the
Dementor's horrible hands. And we can't even be sure that Dudley *did*
feel them since he only reports cold, extreme unhappiness, and hearing
voices in his head.

And Harry yells at Dudley, "COME BACK! YOU'RE RUNNING RIGHT AT IT!"
(OoP Am. ed. ). Obviously if Dudley could see the Dementor, he'd have
done no such thing.

Snow:

Two things come to mind for me about this last statement. 

The first is that Dudley couldn't have seen the dementor even if he 
were able to see dementors because it was too dark to dark for him to 
even see Harry.

OOP pg. 16 "I'll t-tell Dad!" Dudley whimpered. "W-where are you? 
What are you d-do-?"


The second is that Dudley was so scared that he started to run 
blindly down the alleyway where Harry suspected that the first 
dementor was. 

OOP pg. 17 "You moron, Dudley?" Harry yelled, his eyes watering with 
pain, as he scrambled to his hands and knees, now feeling around 
frantically in the blackness. He heard Dudley blundering away, 
hitting the alley fence, stumbling.


Carol:  

Again, I think that he kept his mouth tightly shut with his hands
clamped over it because the desperation in Harry's voice convinced him
that was the only way to protect himself. He certainly didn't know
about the Dementor's kiss, but he did know that very unpleasant things
could happen to his mouth. And he could sense that something horrible
was near him. But if he had actually seen something as terrible as a
Dementor, he would surely have fainted or screamed or run the other
direction--*not* toward it. That makes no sense at all.

Snow:

Harry was able to sense the dementors presence because he had 
experienced it before and was attempting to look for the source. 
(Throughout the description of this scene with the dementors, Harry 
is relating this experience to ones he has previously had.) Dudley on 
the other hand was reacting to the feelings that the dementor was 
causing (thinking it was Harry causing it) but not having experienced 
it before would not know what or where the source (dementor) was 
along with the fact that it was too dark to see.

Carol, who doesn't understand why anyone would *want* bully!Dudley to
be a wizard or believe that he could be one despite the narrator's
statements in *every book* that the Dursleys are Muggles

Snow:

I don't particularly care one way or the other if Dudley is magical 
or not but if Dudley does possess some magic to what advantage would 
magical Dudley be to the story? Unless it would be to teach the 
Dursleys not to be prejudice. Kind of like don't talk badly about 
other people's children or you may end up with one just like them. 
Other than that I can't honestly see where Dudley being magical would 
help or hurt Harry.