When Harry met Sally (was: Re: Incomplete Prophecy)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 107592

SSSusan previously:
>>>> I have always wondered, though, believing as I do that he 
HAS truly chosen for himself, what WOULD have happened if Harry 
had exercised his choice by going AGAINST what DD planned/hoped? 
 
... That is, by  saying, "NO WAY, OLD MAN! ..."<<<<
 
Kneasy: 
>>> Funny you should mention that.
I fully expect Harry to dig his heels in and try to opt out in 
book 6. He'll be just beginning to realise the implications of his 
little chat with DD at the end of OoP. He will not be happy at 
being voted (in absentia) as the Chief Pest Exterminator to the 
WW. ...edited... It won't be, needless to say.<<<
 
SSSusan:
>> Hurray!!  And THEN we'll agree that Harry has definitely HAD a 
real choice to make, won't we? ;-)
Personally--and most here know that I just adore Harry, so I'm not 
saying this to be cruel or mean--I hope we do get to see some of 
this internal wrestling over what he "has" to do.  ... seriously 
question "his" burden and wonder about opting out.  I won't be sorry 
if temptation rears its ugly head.  I'm not sure whether I believe 
Harry would give in to it or not.  ...

What say others?  Will Harry opt out?  ...<<
 
 
Asian_lovr2 [Steve]:
> When you are discussing Harry's choices and his ability to choose, 
> you all seem to focus on Dumbledore and the extent to which he is
> controlling Harry's choices, but I think that avoids the real
> character affecting Harry's choices.


SSSusan again:
Hi, Steve.  I think the reason it seems like it here is because I 
had been reacting to Kneasy's post, trying to be sure I understood 
whether he'd done an about-face on the issue of choice.  *Kneasy* 
has argued long & hard about [correct me if I screw this up, Kneasy] 
DD's being a puppetmaster, the one controlling everything, and the 
one limiting Harry's choices.  I have never agreed that it goes that 
far, though I think he does have an overall plan--or hope--for how 
things will work out, based at least in part upon the fact that he 
simply knows more than others.

There was a BIG gap between that first statement of mine, above, and 
the "NO WAY, OLD MAN!" and I'm not sure my meaning has stayed 
intact. Though you're right in the sense that in the back of my 
mind, I *do* think of Harry making his big post-prophecy-revelation 
choice in terms of how DD will react to it.


Steve: 
> First, does Harry have a choice? Yes, he always has 'in the moment'
> choices. He had the abibility to say, Snape's gone after the Stone 
> and there is nothing I can do about it, or Snape has gone after 
> the Stone and regardless of how futile the effort might be, I have 
> to try and stop him.

SSSusan again:
Absolutely.  This is what I was referring to way up top in the bit 
you first snipped.  I think Harry HAS had choice, and it hasn't 
always had to do w/ DD.  [It's funny.  I've argued recently that DD 
may have set up the PS/SS protections as a test for Harry.  But I've 
never had that feeling about the CoS.  I wonder if that's 
inconsistent on my part....]  ANYWAY, I see Harry's actions in CoS 
as definitely choice.  Why couldn't it have been RON alone who went 
off to save his sister?  Ron went, but Harry led the way.  In PoA 
Harry made the choice to let Wormtail go and to believe Sirius.  In 
GoF Harry made the choice to accept Cedric's wish and to take his 
body back.  On & on we could go.  Some choices big, some quite 
small, but I think Harry has always had the choice whether to take 
risk, whether to do what he thinks serves the greater good, or to 
opt out.  So I agree with you there.

Steve: 
> But, in the long term, I think his life is guided by an inescapable
> destiny. However, the destiny is not controlled by Dumbledore, it's
> controlled by Voldemort. 
> 
> Harry can say, 'I quit' and move far away to Bangkok to live a 
> quiet life. He can a make that choice. And, it's true his life 
> might be quieter, but as long as Voldemort wants to kill Harry, 
> Harry's life will always be under a shadow. He will always live 
> looking over his shoulder waiting for Voldemort or the DE's to 
> appear and attack him. 
> 
> So, it is not Dumbledore that is forcing the direction and fate of
> Harry's life, it's Voldemort.


SSSusan:
An interesting take on this as his choice being forced or made in 
reference to VOLDY, not to DD.  I hadn't considered it quite that 
way....

But I guess I'd still say that it isn't *quite* inescapable 
destiny.  As you say, he COULD choose to quit and run.  It wouldn't 
be much of a life, and it doesn't seem to me to be in keeping w/ 
Harry's nature, but it's presumably a choice he COULD make?

Siriusly Snapey Susan