How should Harry deal with Snape? (was: Why Snape doesn't have to be human)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 107756

SSSusan:
>>> I like this question of Neri's, and I think it just might serve 
Harry well if he were to consider it very seriously.  I can 
understand your reaction, Alla, but I don't know that I agree with 
you.  We've seen very little indication that Snape is interested in 
changing.  So if a change is going to occur between the two, I 
think it just might have to come from an effort of Harry's.

What could it hurt for Harry to TRY this tack?  Not a thing.  The 
bigger question, I think, is:  Is it *possible* for a 16-year-old, 
filled with anger and frustration, convinced this man truly loathes 
him, to set all that aside and say, "NO. I will not feed the cycle 
by being a berk to him.  I will not give him reason any more to 
fail me, to sneer at me, to belittle me. I will show him that I 
understand we MUST work together." <<<

Dzeytoun replied: 
> I understand the logic behind this, but I have three main 
> objections.  First of all, such a solution to the Snape/Harry 
> dilemma would imply that the way to deal with bullies is to submit 
> to them, which is a dangerous precedent.  


SSSusan:
Some of us believe that is precisely what one does do.  As another 
here posted, looking a bully straight in the eye and calmly agreeing 
to do something he demands of you sometimes stops them cold.


Dzeytoun:
> Secondly, it would be deeply unsatisfying.  I realize that the last 
> is a purely subjective statement, but I think I speak for a large 
> number of people when I say that I will be extremely dissatisfied 
> if Snape's behavior does not come home to roost in a very 
> meaningful way.  Harry proving he is the better man by becoming 
> a "model" student, or undertaking that behavior just to cooperate 
> with Snape for the good of the Order, just doesn't cut it - if no 
> other reason than that such a plotline would be so very trite and 
> stale.

SSSusan:
As you say, this is a subjective view, and I just don't agree with 
it.  For one thing, just bec. Harry might set aside his anger, 
loathing & resentment in order to work w/ Snape, it doesn't mean 
Snape's behavior might not "come home to roost" as you've suggested.  
An adjustment in their behavior towards one another doesn't 
necessarily equal a cancellation of all that's come before.  

Also, saying Harry would be doing this "just for the good of the 
Order" seems a bit of an understatement for me.  *IF* such a thing as 
I described initially comes to fruition [and remember, it was just 
a "what if" response to Neri's question of what Harry could possibly 
do], then I'd argue it would/could only come after Harry had come to 
the understanding that the entire Wizarding World is at stake, that 
there are certain things which MUST be accomplished in order to stop 
Voldy, and that at least one small part of that will require his 
managing to work with Snape.


Dzeytoun:
> The most important objection, however, is that the time for this 
> approach has already come and gone.  IF someone like Dumbledore or 
> Lupin (or best of all, Sirius) had approached Harry with this idea 
> BEFORE the events of OOTP, I suppose it might have had a shot.  But 
> now Harry's feelings for Snape have gone past the stage of anger, 
> resentment, or even rage, and settled into cold hatred.  Observe 
> his response to Snape at the end of OOTP.  It was nothing if not 
> coldly polite.  He did not fume or argue, he did not even waste 
> much energy feeling resentful after McGonagall intervened and sent 
> him outside.  He just felt icy hatred for Snape, period.  


SSSusan:
I don't see why it's come & gone, though.  You're quite right that it 
might have been more easily accomplished if DD, Lupin or Sirius had 
counseled Harry on this, but I don't think all possibility is gone.  
In fact, and maybe surprisingly, I think that icy hatred might work 
*very well* to get Harry to the point where he can do this.  Maybe 
I'm weird, but I think when he's hopping mad, filled with fiery 
indignation and rage, he CAN'T see reason.  When a person feels *icy* 
hatred, it's somehow calmer, leaving room for a little rationality to 
enter in.  I mean, it's "hotheads" who make rash, angry decisions, 
right?  


Dzeytoun:
> Harry honestly believes that Snape had a hand in Sirius' death 
> because of Snape's behavior during Occlumency lessons and his 
> goading of Sirius at Grimmauld Place.  
> 
> All together, I think it is going to take a major event to make for 
> an opening between these two.  First of all, it will take large 
> revelations concerning the history between Snape and the Marauders, 
> as well as revelations about why Dumbledore trusts Snape.  
> Secondly, it will take a personal development on Harry's part which 
> will probably not entail him coming to respect Snape, but which 
> will likely render Snape a minor factor in his overall view of the 
> world.


SSSusan:
I don't quite see why there would have to be a lot of revelation 
about the Snape/Marauder history, though I agree with you that a more 
complete understanding of why DD trusts Snape would help Harry 
towards this.  I agree also that for this ever to happen between 
Harry & Snape, it *would* take personal development on Harry's part.  
That is precisely what I think will happen.  I've no prediction about 
how long it will take, but I think it really might come.  Will 
forgiveness be a part of it?  I'm not sure, at least not at first.  

I guess to sum up, I put a lot of faith in Harry's ability to SET 
ASIDE some things [like blame & hatred] in order to focus on the 
major task of defeating Voldy.  We may just disagree on this, though, 
Dzeytoun.


Adding further to this discussion, boyd submitted the following:
>>boyd:  Anyway, I think JKR is serving us a lesson in morality here: 
Harry needs to learn to look past people's shortcomings & appearances 
to their real worth; ditto for Snape.<<

SSSusan:
This, btw, is what I'm trying to say above.  That Harry may not be 
able to forgive just yet, but he might be able to set aside 
nonetheless.


>>boyd:  And, assuming Snape is not a double agent for LV, Snape has 
been quite worthwhile from an OoP perspective--and has at least tried 
to save Harry on a few occasions.  And Harry, despite being a rule-
breaking, attention-hogging son-of-a-Potter (from Snape's 
perspective), has defeated LV and his henchmen on multiple occasions 
now.

My guess is that JKR will set them up with a cataclismic event: the
death of DD in book 6 (yes, one prediction I've made that will not
change until proven wrong by canon). Harry will then need Snape as a
guardian/teacher and to tell him the remaining secrets DD never
revealed. Such as how he's supposed to go about killing LV, and what
the gleam meant.

Snape, meanwhile, will need Harry because he is the one weapon against
LV. Snape will have to persuade him that he is not ESE!Snape, that
Harry is not HopelessWithoutDD!Harry, and that they both have a common
goal: defeating LV. Probably we'll get a little more Snape backstory
here--juicy!--and maybe even see a pair of apologies.

--boyd
I just hope they don't hug!<<


SSSusan:
I really like the things boyd has said here--esp. that DD's death 
could be the catalyst for the "setting aside" between Harry & Snape.

I also concur that they should never hug!  Eewwwww!! ;-)

Siriusly Snapey Susan