Who's to Blame/Ending Occulmency/Long

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 100586

Wow, seriously great post!  I'm not for excusing Harry for the times
he has no excuse, either, but I do think a lot of people blame Harry
too much for how the Occlumency lessons went (and didn't go). This is
a really thorough summary, but, besides agreeing with points Alla made
in reply, I want to add a couple of things.

K:
<big snip, including info Harry *was* given>
> Harry knows there is a connection with Voldemort and if someone is 
> trying to teach him how to break that connection then he should pay 
> close attention. Harry made the choice to ignore what people were 
> telling him.

Annemehr:
Yes. Personally, I don't think Harry outright ignored this, though I
do concede that he didn't give it as much weight as I think he ought
to have, *especially* the appeal Dumbledore made to him to practice,
just before disappearing from Hogwarts on Fawkes' tailfeathers.
Dumbledore looked Harry in the eye to do it, for starters (though that
may have backfired since Harry was distracted somewhat by snaky feelings).
 
> "K":
 
> As Harry says:
> 
> ~~The truth was that he was so intensely curious about what was 
> hidden in that room full of dusty orbs that he was quite keen for 
> the dreams to continue.
> oop/ch 30/pg 682/us

Annemehr:
This was an obstacle for Harry, not a decision, IMO. It parallels PoA,
where his desire to hear his parents' voices, even in their last
moments, was interfering with his desire to learn to produce a
Patronus. In both PoA and OoP, Harry was dealing with mixed feelings
and emotions. But in PoA the emotions were his alone; in OoP he'd been
having Voldemort's dreams of the door since the summer and been
infected with Voldemort's intense curiousity. I think that's an
important point. Despite this, he *did* put some effort into
practising; the book isn't really clear on exactly how much.



> "K":
> Also, who says Harry didn't learn Occlumency to some extent?
<snip one example> 
> There is one more scene where it's possible Harry uses 
> Occlumency. It's the scene where Bella, Harry, Voldemort, and 
> Dumbledore are at the ministry. Sirius has just died.
> 
<snip>
>    Voldemort paid no attention.
>    "I have nothing more to say to you, Potter," he said 
> quietly. "You have irked me too often, for too long. AVADA KEDAVRA!"
>    Harry had not even opened his mouth to resist. His mind was 
> blank, his wand pointing uselessly at the floor.~~
> oop/ch 36/pgs 811-813
> 
> After all Harry has just gone through with the Death Eaters, with 
> Voldemort causing Harry physical pain and Harry being in a rage, 
> Harry comes to a point where his mind is BLANK.

Annemehr:
But Voldemort has just seen in Harry's mind that the prophecy orb had
indeed broken. For this scene, I interpret Harry's blankness to being
completely numb and empty.  He would have just stood there and died if
Dumbledore hadn't blocked the AK.

K:
> 
> I believe there is a lot more to Occlumency than we have been told. 
> I think it's only the beginning. There is now a connection between 
> Snape and Harry. How this will be used I don't know but I feel it 
> will be important.
> 
> ~~... Harry felt he was getting worse with every lesson.
<snip>
> ~~ "Snape made it worse, my scar always hurt worse after lessons 
> with him ---" Harry remembered Ron's thoughts on the subject and 
> plunged on. "How do you know he wasn't trying to soften me up for 
> Voldemort, make it easier for him to get inside my ---"
>    "I trust Severus Snape," said Dumbledore simply.~~
> oop/ch 37/pg 833/us

Annemehr:
There's one more very important statement from Dumbledore in that chapter:

Dumbledore: "I have already said that it was a mistake for me not to
teach you myself, though I was sure, at the time, that nothing could
have been more dangerous than to **open your mind even further to
Voldemort** while in my presence --" [emphasis mine]

Which tells us:
1) Harry was *not* mistaken in thinking that lessons with Snape were
making him worse (though he had no way of knowing that the problem was
an effect of Occlumency lessons in general and not with Snape himself,
because *nobody told him about that effect*).
2) If lessons were opening Harry's mind even further to Voldemort,
then they were opening his mind even further to Voldemort's curiousity
about the prophecy.
3) Not knowing about this effect of Occlumency lessons left Harry to
think that, if he was getting worse during lessons, the lessons must
not be working.

This is one crucial piece of information Harry was not given until it
was too late, and may well have made a difference.

K:
> Notice Dumbledore does not tell Harry that Ron was wrong. He just 
> says he trusts Snape. As I've said, I think the connection between 
> Snape and Harry will come into play later on but that doesn't mean 
> it will be in a negative way.
> 
> Yes, Snape ended the lesson but maybe, just maybe, Snape had 
> finished what needed to be done.  
> 
> "K"

Annemehr:
As for a connection between Harry and Snape, my mind is open, but so
far I don't think so, if you mean something akin to the scar
connection between Harry and LV. If you mean that their relationship
will be important, then I agree. There's also the fact that Harry
knows Snape knows Occlumency and Legilimency, which may be put to
better use someday.

And yes, I agree Harry may have learned more Occlumency than anyone
realises.

Annemehr