Who's to Blame for Sirius’ Death (was Who's to Blame/Ending Occulmency/Long)

[Brenda]

No: HPFGUIDX 100627

Brenda here...

FINALLY!!  I joined HPFG for this particular debate.  I am soo soo 
overjoyed!!

>>> Alla: Actually, no, we can't agree that Snape had no 
responsibility for Sirius death'. :) As I said many times, I think 
that Dumbledore had much larger portion of said responsibility, but 
Snape is guilty too, as far as I am concerned.
<and Later Post> I am putting the blame like that: Of course 
Voldemort gets his full share of blame as number one, but if we were 
to distribute the blame among the good guys I would put it like that: 
Dumbledore - 60%, Snape - 25% and Harry - 15%. <<<

Umm, EXCUSE me, I have to make some minor changes:

Harry – 60%, Kreacher – 30%, Sirius – 10%.

Notice that I do NOT blame DD for his death.  I just don't see how DD 
telling Harry about the prophecy would actually prevent Sirius' 
death.  I do believe it might have been a little late for Harry to 
know the truth, but what would have happened if Harry indeed *knew*?


-------- Hypothetical Situation that Harry knew about the Prophecy at 
the end of 4th year --------

To me, the END of GoF might have been a good place for DD to tell 
Harry "everything".  So let's say he did.  His destiny as "murderer 
or else, victim" would have left him quite unsettling (well DUH), so 
he would have spent the whole summer obsessed and dreaming about it.  
Anyone disagree yet?

Now, we see the evidence of Harry-LV connection from the BEGINNING of 
GoF.  At this point, DD believes Harry feels the scar burning means 
LV is close by or is at his emotional peak.  Throughout GoF, that is 
the only explanation of the scar burning.  We do not know, at this 
point, that it was in fact the beginning of LV's Legilimency on Harry 
and vice versa (although I am sure DD saw it coming).  How does DD 
even know about his scar burning -- from Sirius.  Harry wrote to 
Sirius: "A weird thing happened this morning, though.  My scar hurt 
again.  Last time that happened
" (GoF, 28. UK)  But what if he had 
told Sirius in that letter that he had woken up from a DREAM, a dream 
involving LV and talk of Harry's own death?  Now THAT would have been 
a clear indication that LV had indeed started penetrating Harry's 
mind.  I believe DD had no idea how far LV's Legilimency had 
progressed on Harry (Harry's been complaining `his scar hurting' 
since Book 1.  How da hell would you know?)  Here is his problem.  He 
doesn't completely trust adults who truly care for him.  I realize 
this must be extremely hard on him, after all, would you if you had 
grown up under Uncle Vernon?  But I thought after all those years and 
troubles at Hogwarts, he would have finally understood that there ARE 
other wizards who can see much bigger picture in all this (such as 
DD).  Harry is just darn thick.  He believes that he himself and 
*only* himself is the true hero who will save the Potterverse, which 
is only partially true (he needs DD's guide, Hermione's brain and 
Ron's support to get to that point)

Then jumping to the end of GoF in this hypothetical situation, Harry 
knows about the prophecy (which is the stealth weapon that LV wants 
more than anything, other than Harry himself) AND LV is still able to 
penetrate Harry's mind, though unaware.  Has it occurred to any of 
you that LV might've had been able to see/read Harry's nightmares and 
the prophecy itself?

Then the 5th year comes.  DD sees the shadow of Voldemort every time 
he gazes his eyes upon Harry.  Harry-LV connection is growing 
stronger, and alas, Harry already knows the prophecy.  Harry must 
learn about the possibility of LV penetrating his mind, but it is 
nearly impossible, since Harry feels the snake inside him whenever he 
sees DD.  He wants to attack him.  Harry keeps seeing the mysterious 
corridors in his dreams.  As far as LV knows, the prophecy is kept at 
the Department of Mysteries.  But do you think (when DD was telling 
Harry about the prophecy at the end of GoF) DD would have mentioned 
the fact that the record is being kept at DoM?  He probably did not 
think it necessary, since he wasn't aware of H-LV connection running 
deeper than merely on emotional/ distance level.  Again, whose fault 
is THAT?  Dumbledore's?  For not being able to draw right logic 
because the kid hadn't given him enough information?  I THINK NOT.

-------- The End of the Hypothetical Situation --------


In conclusion, I do not believe Harry learning the prophecy prior to 
OoP would have prevented Sirius' death.  Voldemort had realized the 
connection after the attack on Arthur Weasley, he could have easily 
penetrated Harry's thoughts and acquired the "stealth weapon" 
himself.  However, this would NOT have stopped Voldemort alluring 
Harry.  Let us not forget that Voldemort wants Harry even more so 
than the prophecy.  LV would lure and manipulate Harry at any cost.  
And thanks to Kreacher's information, LV had learned HOW to lure him 
out – Sirius.  LV did not have to torture Sirius at DoM.  He could 
have chosen ANY place, and Harry would have gone any length to save 
Sirius (and I do love Harry for that, he's doing my job, lol)


Thus, Sirius' death comes down to... :

1. Occlumency, Occlumency!  Harry NOT LEARNING Occlumency.  It is 
very obvious in the book that he simply doesn't try hard (refer to 
Koinonia's post).  Just the mere thought of his parents' murderer 
reading his mind & thoughts should be MORE THAN ENOUGH to learn 
Occlumency.  I would not have slacked off if I thought that my 
parents' murderer (knock on wood) is reading my mind and that he is 
ENJOYING the fact that I am suffering from it.  I do not wish to go 
on and on about Occlumency lesson though, Koinonia/"K" has provided 
SUCH an excellent argument on this point with numerous references to 
the book, and for that I am deeply grateful (I was thinking "OH MY, I 
can sooo kiss you!" but then it might offend you, so
)

2. Not opening Sirius' Gift!!  The Two-Way Mirror.  Even if Harry did 
not succeed at Occlumency, if he had opened Sirius' gift when given 
to him, he would not have gone to DoM.  Then why da HELL did he not 
open it?

" `What is it?' Harry asked.  `A way of letting me know if Snape's 
giving you a hard time.  No, don't open it in here!' said Sirius 
<snip> `Ok,' said Harry, stowing the package away in the inside 
pocket of his jacket, but he knew he would never use whatever it 
was.  It would not be he, Harry, who lured Sirius from his place of 
safety
 " (OoP, 462. UK) 

Err, "but he knew he would never use whatever it was"?!?!??  Can you 
imagine, all those nights, when he could have talked to Sirius?  They 
could have talked EVERY NIGHT, they both would have been so happy, 
Sirius wouldn't have been so miserable, and to top it all, Harry 
would have seen that Sirius was safe and sound when Voldemort 
supposedly tortured him.  THIS is his weakness – his tendency to jump 
to conclusion without thinking things over.  This will tie up to my 
next point, which is


3. Not listening to Hermione!!!  Not listening to the true BRAINER of 
the trio.  You would think, after almost 5 years of being with "the 
cleverest witch of her age" and being the first witness to how she is 
NEVER WRONG, that Harry will at least listen to Hermione.  NO, Harry 
just doesn't listen and he just doesn't learn from his mistakes.  
Hermione makes a very valuable point after Harry's dream.  

" `But
 Harry, think about this,' said Hermione <snip> `it's five 
o'clock in the afternoon
 the Ministry of Magic must be full of 
workers
 how would Voldemort and Sirius have got in without being 
seen?  Harry
 they're probably the two most wanted wizards in the 
world
 you think they could get into a building full of Aurors 
undetected?' " (OoP, 645. UK)

To me, that makes perfect sense.  But does our Harry react to 
this "cool use of logic"?

" `Anyway, the Department of Mysteries has always been completely 
empty whenever I've been --'  `You've never been there, Harry,' said 
Hermione quietly.  `You've dreamed about the place, that's all.' " 
(OoP, 645. UK)

Harry uses Umbridge's fireplace afterwards.  ONLY BECAUSE Hermione 
begged him to check before he does anything stupid (like going to the 
Ministry).  If that doesn't spell out "reckless" and "irrational", I 
dunno what does.

Of course Harry is not perfect, he is only human after all, and true, 
he is only a 15-year-old boy.  However he clearly wishes to be 
treated as adults, yet he fails to realize that being an adult comes 
with a high price, especially for someone who has been "marked" such 
as himself.  Harry is growing up, and this sort of rebellion is 
totally understood (after all, we've all been there, done that – 
wells except for dueling with the most evil wizard).  It seems to 
very clear to me, especially after reading this editorial 
<http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt22.shtml> that 
Sirius' death was necessary, and this is how I am coping with his 
death.  (The editorial talks about the Wizard Chess scene in 
Philosopher's Stone and how it reflects the entire HP saga.)  He died 
for things that are "worth dying for", and I reckon he'll be much 
happier reuniting with James and Lily in "after life" than being 
stuck at the "Grim-Old" Place.

Oh, and as for Snape
 I believe he did everything he could to help 
Harry and the Order, AS ALWAYS.  If it wasn't for Snape to alert the 
Order that Harry had set off to the Ministry, he would have died, 
period.  And as for Snape being unfair to Harry in Potions lesson
 it 
was suggested that maybe he does so to prepare Harry for all the 
necessary potions that he needs to know for the final showdown?  And 
he "favors" Slytherin students to unprepare them?  Harry is the only 
one Snape watches out for in Potions class, no?  Besides Neville
 but 
I think I would also pick on him if I was Snape
  For more 
information, go to
<http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt15.shtml> -- it 
is an excellent essay on Professor Snape.