[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape vs. RW (was: Harry) (was: What if other teachers behaved like Snape?)

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 101466

On 15 Jun 2004 at 19:21, cubfanbudwoman wrote:

> SSSusan:
> Ha ha ha!  I'm just trying to see if I can bring Kneasy out to issue 
> a congratulatory note to me. ;-)
> 
> No, seriously, Del's words truly did hit me differently today that 
> other arguments have before.  And, Alla, to answer your question from 
> a moment ago about how much slack we should cut Snape, I really don't 
> know!!  I suspect I'll waver from moment to moment, depending on the 
> mood I'm in.  But I did just realize that maybe I need to set aside 
> RL teaching/learning situations a little more and think about the 
> magical world as JKR has painted it:  it's got more danger, and it's 
> certainly less parental/authority hands-on than what U.S. teenagers 
> would be experiencing.  I'm sure I'll still always argue that if 
> Snape were a good all-round teacher, he'd evaluate his methods more, 
> but I'm shifting away from my vehement "grade abuse" stance of yore.

I think that the really important point, at least for me, is that 
there's a lot of cultural differences tied up in these issues.

Myself - having attended a very traditional school, similar in many 
ways (though unfortunately not in every way) to Hogwarts - I find 
it quite easy to see Snape's potential as a teacher within the 
context of the school he is in. I *had* teachers very much like 
Snape - and I'm grateful for that - but I would not have tolerated 
the treatment I accepted from teachers at the school I was at when 
I was 14, from the teachers at the school I was at when I was 12.

Because the *cultures* of those schools were so different. The one 
I was at when I was 12, was an extremely liberal, very modern 
school, where it was the teachers job to be student's friends, to 
make learning a pleasant experience, and to facilitate their 
learning (and it was an absolute disaster for me, and I hated it).

The school I was at when I was 14 was extremely traditional, very 
old fashioned and it was the teachers job to teach students 
academically to their maximum potential and where everything elese 
was completely and totally secondary (there was nothing wrong with 
a teacher being friendly, and there was certainly nothing wrong 
with a teacher making their classes pleasant if they could, and 
many did - but those things were *not* priorities - they were 
optional extras if the teacher could manage them). And that was the 
learning environment I *prospered* in.

But I accepted things from the teachers there - including even to 
the extent of being hit by them - that I *never* would have 
accepted at the other school. Simply because of the different 
culture within the school.

Hogwarts has its own culture - and from what we see of it, it seems 
a very effective one. Virtually every adult we see who we know 
attended Hogwarts is a competent functioning adult. In terms of the 
kids - well, Neville is the one we've seen who has the most 
problems - but even he seems to have done relatively well - holding 
his own in most subjects, doing very well in one, doing poorly in 
one - but his character is certainly a strong one - he has learned 
to stand on his own two feet.

Hogwarts seems to be a *successful* school. It's culture seems to 
be an effective one.

So I can forgive Snape a fair bit in the context of that school. 
But not elsewhere.

I'm currently studying to be a teacher - and therefore I'm being 
taught all the nice new methods that most people want used in most 
schools today - and they are great. I've no problem with them - and 
if I wind up teaching in a normal school I suspect those methods 
will be my main tools.

But if I wound up at my old school, or one similar to that, I think 
I'd be a rather Snapish teacher (-8 - not quite as bad as Snape (in 
fact, McGonnagal is my favourite model - strict when needed, not 
prepared to accept anything less than her students can do, but 
apparently scrupulously fair).

Teaching styles of school call for different styles of teaching, in 
my opinion.

JKR could have created Hogwarts as the Wizarding version of a city 
comprehensive. She deliberately chose not to - she chose to use 
something based on the traditional British independent (public) 
boarding school - from what I've read, not because she is 
particularly in favour of such schools, but because it gave her the 
model she needed to make her stories work.

Within the school she's created, I think teachers like Snape are 
acceptable in general - I violently disagree with a couple of 
things Snape has done - but I agree that most of what he does is 
valid within that school context.

But in another context - definitely not.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia