Philosophy for kids! (Re: book six title)

[a_reader2003]

No: HPFGUIDX 102921

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at e...> 
wrote:
> > Carolyn:
> > And on the theme of storge (from C.S. Lewis):
> > 
> > "The role of storge love; what is the hold that affectionate love 
> has on humans? At what point does this kind of love cease to be 
love and becomes instead a demon?" 
> 
> Jen: I had to do some searching after reading your post Carolyn 
> becuase 'storge' love was a new term for me. So I guess storge 
love, in relation to COS and OOTP, would mainly refer to mother-to-
child love? That was the primary connection I could think of between 
the two books and familial love, in relation to the plot.

Carolyn (again):
I am by no means a philosophy expert, but storge is one of four 
concepts the ancient Greeks used to describe types of love. They are:

storge - love & loyalty within families
philia - love & friendship between non-related people
eros - romantic, erotic love
agape - divine love

The basic concept is that the first three on their own, although nice 
in theory, can turn against themselves. Ie, families can be riven by 
rivalry and hatred, friends can fall out, erotic love can also lead 
to cause pain and heartache. The Greeks' idea was that you needed the 
addition/intervention of agape (divine, self-less love) in each case 
to prevent this happening. (Seriously over-simplying the concepts, 
but that's the gist, I think).

I don't think 'storge' is limited to mother-child love, I think it 
encompasses any relationship between family members. *If* this really 
is the theme she is driving at in Book 6, it could be explosive. 
There are so many difficult family situations in the books - Malfoys, 
Blacks, Weasleys, Dursleys, Longbottoms..never mind the ones we don't 
know about yet. In fact, I can't think of a completely happy family.


> 
> Carolyn: 
> > If this rumour has any truth in it at all, it would seem that 
Book 6 could have an exceptionally ambivalent theme about family 
love, and complicate our responses to 'bad guys' like Snape and 
Umbridge even further, although I suppose we are to assume agape will 
overcome all in the end.
> 
> Jen: Please JKR, no more ethical complications and shades of gray! 
> I've already have enough cognitive dissonance about the characters 
> as it is. But, you're probably right Carolyn. There are several 
well-developed characters who are ripe for an explnation of familial 
> love. Snape seems the best candidate after those scenes during 
> Occlumency. Maybe the Potters or Evans as well? 
> 
> If Lily and Petunia ever experienced storge love, it 
> certainly 'ceased to be love and became a demon'. And there's 
Hagrid and Grawp!


Carolyn again:
Well, we differ here. The darker, grainier and more ambivalent the 
series gets, the better for me. I would like the books to make a stab 
at being great literature, not end up as a simplistic tale of good 
and evil for kids. I don't know whether she has the experience or 
writing skills to carry it off, but I'd sure like to see her try. And 
yes, Snape is a prime candidate for this theme - not just his 
possible family history, but also his friendships/loyalties, whatever 
they are. Not so sure I am as engaged with Grawp, but I'll make an 
effort !

> 
> Carolyn:
> > Personally, I am somewhat sceptical just because it is such a 
clumsy, and frankly outrageously intellectual title. If she goes for 
it, that would be amazing. She really will be setting some tough 
hurdles for kids - yippee.
> 
> Jen:
> After reading more about the four stages of love, I'd love to see 
> JKR explore this theme. I still don't understand the 'Pillar' part 
> of the alleged title though--are the four stages of love sometimes 
> referred to as the four pillars of love? 
> 

Carolyn again:
I think the term 'pillar' has come about because the four types of 
love are fundamental to a lot of Christian theoretical thinking. 
Amongst many writers, CS Lewis wrote extensively about them - eg 
in 'The Four Loves'. They are not stages, as I understand them, just 
different types of love, and the first three can get very 
black. 'Storge' in particular should not be thought of something 
necessarily warm and cuddly. Think the madness of Mrs Black, and the 
darker sides of Molly's coddling.

If it is the theme, it would be plausible to think of whatever is in 
the locked room at the MoM as symbolic agape. Opening it up might 
solve all the disunity etc. Its the redemption theme of divine love 
all over again. Something triumphing over all the myriad character 
complications she has presented to us (family, friends, erotic). 

But as a profound sceptic and non-believer, this bit appears quite 
ridiculous to me as a notion, (and unlikely to work as a major plot 
resolution device) so I hope she thinks of something a bit more 
cunning ! In a post a while back, I jokingly saw them blowing opening 
the room, and everyone getting splattered with love, including Snape, 
who immediately started hugging innocent passers-by. You see the 
problem...

The more I think about it, I think it is a spoof, but where did it 
come from ? Wouldn't put it past JKR herself to have started it - an 
almost definite indication that she reads this list!

But just think of the scene at Warner Bros when they hear the title! 
To paraphrase Uncle Vernon:

FatWB Controller: 'So..so..what exactly is this storgy-whatsit?'
JKR: 'Its a common theme in Greek philosophy which has influenced 
many important religious thinkers.'
FatWB Controller opens his mouth, closes it again..apparently 
struggling to remember how to talk.
JKR (brightly): 'Its one of four key concepts, which include philia, 
eros and agape'.
FatWB Controller (shouting): 'Enough - effing - philosophy..you mean 
that there's sex in this one? And phil..philly..you know, messing 
about... I can't put anything like that in a kids film!'

Etc..etc
Yes, indeed, a wildly subversive, and extremely clever rumour to have 
started off, I salute the perpetrator, whatever the truth of it.

Carolyn