Help! Understanding the O.W.L.s

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 102948

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:
> Steve, Asian_lovr2 wrote:
>  
> >>>> The TWO Test classes could be counted as two OWLs for a variety 
> of reasons. 
>  
> First, the simple fact that you sit two tests for some classes; one
> OWL credit for each test. 
>  
>  Second, it could be related to the difficulty of the course. 
> Example, college/university courses are rated in 'Credits'. A 2 
> credit course is easier than a 4 credit course; .... 
>  
>  So, again, 'double' credit for the hardest demanding classes. 
> Which, coincidentally, are the same classes you sit two test for. 
> This would  be the equivalent of the 'Double' O-Level/GCSE tests 
> that Wisteria and others have mentioned.>>>



> Ali:
> 
> Steve, I mean no dispespect here, but I think your applying a 
> methodology which simply doesn't fit with the English education 
> system on which O.W.L.s are based. If, JKR is using O'Levels as her 
> blueprint which seems likley from all the evidence I've seen, then 
> the idea for "double credits" doesn't wash.
> 
> When kids in England/Wales get 2 O'Levels for a subject, it is not 
> because of the complexity, it is because of the breadth of the 
> subject - ...edited....
> 

Asian_lovr2/Steve now replies:

First, thank you for all the detailed in-depth information about the
British educations system and standarized testing; very valuable,
especially since, being a life long American/USA, I can't tell a
crumpet from an O-Level.

That said, I must point out the I DON'T THINK we should be too
literal. There is a difference between basing one thing on another,
and modeling something after something else. In one case, one thing is
an exact or very near parallel to the other; in the other case, one
simply takes the framework of the first and uses it to build a
completely new version.

We can reasonably assume that OWLs and NEWTs are modeled after
O-Levels and A-Levels, but I don't think it's equally safe to assume
that they are identical in very way. Personally, I'm more inclined to
believe they share a common framework, which, by extention, implies
that they do not share common details.



> Steve:
>  
> >>> In any event, I am personally convinced that it is one OWL for 
> every test you sit. Potions, as an example, requires you to sit two 
> test, each test represents an OWL credit.>>>
> 
> Ali:
> 
> LOL! Well, I'm personally convinced that Hermione *must* be younger 
> than Harry, others are convinced that Snape is a vampire...Pippin 
> has this rather alarming belief that Lupin is ESE (Please, nooooo)!
> 

Asian_lovr2/Steve:

Well, that's why I said "...I am PERSONALLY convinced..."; trying not
to imply that my opinion creates reality, and I do remain convinced.
Others can say that I am wrong, but can they 'logically extend' the
wizard world with a better explanation. Not with an explanation of why
I am wrong, but an explanation of how the wizard world is reasonably
and likely to work, and how one can reasonably and likely and
functionally get 12 OWLs. In addition, I think I'm basing my personal
opinion on a lot sounder foundation than the 'Snape=Vampire'
theorists. (black capes and dark rooms do not a vampire make)



> Steve:
> >>>> Based on this belief, I estimated that Harry and Ron are taking 
> 9 classes and are eligible for 13 possible OWL credits. Hermione is
>taking 10 classes and is eligible for 14 OWL credits....edited...>>>

Asian_lovr2/Steve now adds:

We are engaged in what I call 'Logical Extension of the Wizard World'.
We have something that appears inconsistent. We can either accept that
it is flat out wrong, or come up with (as much as possible) a logical
and likely explanation, or more accurately, a logical and likely
speculation.

We know carrying a full load of 12 classes is extremely difficult;
Hermione nearly 'cracked up' under the strain of it all and needs
magical help to get her schedule to work.

On the other hand, we know several people in the books who have gotten
 12 OWLs; Bill, possibly Charlie, Percy, and Barty Crouch Jr (although
Barty Sr. was slighly dillusional when he said that). So, my first
assumption is that while 12 OWLs is certainly difficult, outstanding,
and only achieved by the very best students, it is achieved none the less.

Then we have the scheduling conflict. Is it really possible for
someone to make themselves available for every test? 

Originally, I used Hermione's 3rd year test schedule as an example,
but I realized that was flawed. All the OWL test take place in the
Great Hall, and it doesn't appear that more than one subject is tested
at a time. Although, I'm not sure if 5th year and 7th years would be
tested in the same room at the same time. That could happen, but the
available evidence doesn't seem to support it. The main point to
remember when analysing the schedule is to remember the both 5th year
and 7th year are testing. If separately tested, that could imply as
many as 32 tests. At two per day, that implies /close to/ 16 days of
testing.

That's why this time, I ask, 'is it possible?' rather than imply that
it is not possible to take all tests. 

If was assume it is possible, then we must look at various characters
and ponder their courses, and what classes they would take, and which
classes they would be able to test out of. 

Elective Classes: (5 total)
Arithmancy - Ancient Runes - Muggle Studies - Care of Magical
Creatures - Divination

Percy suggests taking Muggle Studies and Divination. If he did not
personally take these classes, would he have been likely to pass the
test? I don't think so. If he DID take these classes, would he have
been likely to be able to test out of the others without taking the
class? I still don't think so.

Maybe OWL testing is easier than the students (and we) are lead to
believe. The  severity of the test could be exaggerated to make the
students study harder. Perhaps, it's easier to get an 'Acceptable'
than we have been lead to believe. 

On the otherhand, I see very few students who could bluff their way
through any of the elective classes other than 'Muggle Studies' which
muggle kids could certainly bluff their way through. Also, keep in
mind that Muggle Studies isn't muggle reality, it wizard's opinion of
muggle reality.

I suppose if a student had a passing interest in magical creatures
they could bluff their way through 'Care of Magical Creatures'. But if
they had the interest, why wouldn't they take the class? In addition,
we must remember that these class choices were made near the end of
second year. Not exactly a time in life when most students are
strategically planning their futures.

Similarly, Divination could be passed on general knoweldge. Much of
Divination is learned skills and not psychic ability. Tea leaf
reading, bird entrails, tarot cards, dream interpretation, astrology,
etc... are all learned skills. Although, the OWL test involved Crystal
Gazing which does require a degree of psychic ability. If you had the
'gift' and could be sure the test would require use of the 'gift', you
might bluff your way through.

Point, more available OWL points seems a more workable explanation
than students getting passing scores in every available class catagory.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying I'm trying to come up with a
logical and workable explanation.

> 
> Ali:
> 
> Except for the fact that JKR has said that there are a maximum of 12 
> O.W.Ls.
> 
> I pointed to the World Book Day question in which she was asked the 
> maximum number of OWLs in this post:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/102841
> 
> Ali


Asian_Lovr2/Steve:

Well, she did say it, but she didn't say it with any real conviction.
While she didn't specifically and directly express an element of
doubt, the statement seemed to carry an implied element of doubt.

Consequently, I lend only a limited amount of weight to it.

For what it's worth.

Steve/asian_lovr2