CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 13 (Detention with Dolores)

[nkafkafi]

No: HPFGUIDX 91856

> 1.  This is one of the first signs of how Ron will handle his
> responsibilities as prefect.  Do you think it was merely his family
> relationship with the Twins that kept him from being a rules-
enforcer with
> Hermione or would he have shirked his responsibilities if it had 
been Seamus
> and Dean doing something questionable or something that clearly 
broke a
> school rule?  Do you think Harry might have taken his prefect 
duties any
> more seriously than Ron did?
>

Neri: 
I think everybody who has some experience with brothers dynamics will 
agree that Ron supervising two older, aggressive brothers is 
unimaginable. Even Hermione, who is the perfect prefect material, can 
manage them only by threatening them with their mother. The twins 
should have been handled by the prefect of their year (who also made 
him/herself scare, I notice).

I don't think Harry is more a prefect material than Ron is. Harry is 
a born leader, but he only leads by personal example. He is the 
commander who would charge the enemy by himself, not looking back to 
see if the rest of the soldeirs are coming along. They would come, 
precisely because he'll charge anyway, but this is a very different 
leading style than what a prefect needs. Both Ron and Harry are not 
ideal for prefects, but at least they have the basics: if they would 
have seen someone being slighted or wronged, they would have stand up 
to him.

During the first DA lesson, Harry catches Fred and George messing 
with Smith, and they quickly stop and aplogize, but if they wouldn't 
have acknowladged his authority then, I can't think how he would have 
enforced it on them.


   
> 2.  What do you think about Hermione's attempt to trick the house 
elves into
> picking up clothing that will set them free?  Do you agree with Ron 
that
> "they should at least see what they're picking up?"
>

I think most of us agree that the house elves can't be freed against 
their own will (that would be an internal contradiction), though I 
suspect Ron's objection is at least in part just plain wizarding 
conservatism. In fact, both Ron and Hermione behave in this matter 
according to the programming of their differing backgrounds.
  
> 3.  This is one of several instances where Seamus seems to be 
trying to talk
> to Harry.  As in other cases, Harry often doesn't want to take the 
trouble
> and/or risk the confrontation that might occur if he encouraged an
> antagonist to discuss things with him.  You may recall that Rowling 
used
> similar language to signal that Ron might have been amenable to 
making it up
> with Harry sooner, but Harry's stubborn pride and unwillingness to 
engage in
> anything emotionally "messy" always gets in the way.  Do you think 
it is
> stubborn pride, emotional distance or perhaps inner protectiveness 
that
> causes Harry to react this way?
>

Neri
Yep, Harry should have been less proud, I guess, but nobody's perfect 
(not even Hermione), and as I mentioned above, it is Harry's style to 
do what he thinks is right and damn with what other people think. 
It's a very fine line between being very determined and being very 
stubborn.


<snip>> 
> 
> 8.  Were you convinced by Hermione's explanation that maybe it was
> coincidence that Harry's scar hurt when Umbridge touched him?  Is 
Hermione
> right so often in OoP that it might be a red herring in later books?
>

Neri:
Actually, Harry himself thinks that it might be just a coincidene the 
moment it happnes. But I agree Hermione is very annoying being right 
all the time. OTOH we think she is wrong about SPEW, so will it turn 
out that she is wrong about something critical, but correct about 
SPEW?



> 9.  Shipping question (of course!): what do you make of the fact 
that
> Hermione seems anxious to get off to bed on a night when Ron will 
clearly
> wanting to be celebrating and might even have confidence enough to 
make a
> romantic gesture towards her?  If she knows he likes her and she 
likes him
> back, why would she not take the chance to be alone with him when 
he's in
> the best spirits ever before (and instead asks Harry to join her in 
knitting
> the next day, looking "disappointed" at his answer)?  <g>

Neri:
Did someone mention the word "shipping"??? I agree R/H shippers 
should be disappointed about Hermione's behavior in this chapter. 
Let's face it, Hermione just doesn't care about Quidditch. OTOH, H/H 
shippers don't have any reasons to cheer either. Hermione hardly 
express any sympathy for Harry, who is just back from 7 hrs 
detention. She is only disappointed because she again failed to 
recruit him to her SPEW schemes. In my opinion, all three members of 
our trio are being perfectly self-centered and self-occupied here. 
Ron has finally achieved his great ambition to get into the team, 
Hermione has SPEW and Harry has his personal vendetta with Umbridge. 
All three find it difficult to even pretend they care about what is 
so important to the other two. It is actually comical, but it is also 
realistic. One of the reason I like JKR's writing is that her 
characters are not little saints. 

Neri