CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 13 (Detention with Dolores)

[Ali]

No: HPFGUIDX 91863

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pennylin" <pennylin at s...> 
wrote:
SUMMARY
Penny asked:-
 
 QUESTIONS
 
>>>> 1.  This is one of the first signs of how Ron will handle his
responsibilities as prefect.  Do you think it was merely his family
relationship with the Twins that kept him from being a rules-
enforcer with Hermione or would he have shirked his responsibilities 
if it had been Seamus and Dean doing something questionable or 
something that clearly broke a school rule?  Do you think Harry 
might have taken his prefect duties any more seriously than Ron did?
>>>

I think it very unlikely that Ron would have control over any of the 
older students, but certainly not his brothers. I know that some 
schools do have a prefect system involving 5th years and above, but 
I can't imagine the school really expecting the older students to do 
as younger students dictate. Perhaps this is where personal history 
interfers with my reading of the story, but in my school there was 
never really any questions of the prefects in my year telling 
students in their own year what to do. I would not have done so!

I don't think this is a case of Ron shirking responsibilities. I 
don't think that Harry would have joined Hermione in telling off the 
twins, he would probably have tried to have a quiet word with them.  
I actually feel it is Hermione over-estimating the power that her 
prefectship has given her.
 
>>> 2.  What do you think about Hermione's attempt to trick the 
house elves into picking up clothing that will set them free?  Do 
you agree with Ron that"they should at least see what they're 
picking up?"<<<

I always wonder whether Hermione's attempt to free the elves could 
have been successful, unless the students at Hogwarts are masters to 
the house elves *as well* as Dumbledore and the other staff. 
Hermione's attempt to trick elves into freedom though, whether or 
not it was possible, does seem a little sneeky. She has failed to 
convince them of the need to be free, so tries to free them anyhow. 
She has disregarded the severe pychological damage caused to Winky 
by the humililation of her enforced freedom. At this point in time, 
Hermione seems more dedicated to her cause than the rights and 
feelings of the elves themselves.
 
>>> 3.  Do you think it is stubborn pride, emotional distance or 
perhaps inner protectiveness that causes Harry to react this way?>>>

All of the above. I believe that Harry does bear pyschological 
damage from his abusive childhood. We might all think that he has 
done amazingly well in withstanding the side effects of the Dursley 
abuse, but sometimes, his reactions do show the costs of his 
survival tactics.
 
>>> 4.  On first read, did you guess what Ron was up to (practicing 
for the Keeper tryouts)?<<<

No. On the second read it seemed very, very obvious though.
 
>>> 5.  Is it possible that Harry was really there for 7 *hours* 
writing lines that cut into his own hand, or is this another case of 
Rowling not being very good with time details?<<<

I think that we have seen that Hogwarts detentions can be 
unorthodox, and although long, 7 hours is probably not unheard of. 
But, I cannot see how Harry could have continued self mutilation for 
so long - even if the cut did reheal immediately after he had made 
it. 
 
>>> 6.  Was Harry wrong to fail to alert even one Hogwarts professor 
about what was going on with Umbridge's detentions?  He probably 
didn't know the extent of her power at that exact point in time, so 
it was more likely Harry's distrust of adults and authority figures 
(and dislike of "showing weakness") that prompted his decision to 
stoically bear his ordeal and stay silent.
 Even Ron thinks Harry's desire to avoid having Umbridge know that 
she "got to him" is ridiculous, as he urges him to report the 
incidents to McGonagall or Dumbledore.<<<

I think that Harry should have told Dumbledore when it first 
happened. In reality, he knows that it is not weakness. But, I also 
wonder why Ron and Hermione didn't ask for support from the 
teachers. Harry was locked in his own private battle. He has 
frequently failed to get help when he should have. But his friends 
didn't try to help him either. 

 
>>> 8.  Were you convinced by Hermione's explanation that maybe it 
was coincidence that Harry's scar hurt when Umbridge touched him?  
Is Hermione right so often in OoP that it might be a red herring in 
later books?>>>

I felt rather frustrated with OoP's Hermione - she was almost too 
perfect and too mature. She is analytical enough for her to 
correctly think that the scar hurting might be caused by something 
else. I was far less convinced by her sudden ability to analyse how 
other girls felt. She seems to have changed enormously from the girl 
unable to show compassion to Lavender when her rabbit was killed in 
PoA. In a way, I hope Hermione gets it wrong soon, she will feel all 
the more real because of it.

 
>>> 9.  Shipping question (of course!): what do you make of the fact 
that Hermione seems anxious to get off to bed on a night when Ron 
will clearly wanting to be celebrating and might even have 
confidence enough to make a romantic gesture towards her?  If she 
knows he likes her and she likes him back, why would she not take 
the chance to be alone with him when he's in the best spirits ever 
before (and instead asks Harry to join her in knitting
the next day, looking "disappointed" at his answer)? <<<

Erm, I have to say that I had never thought about that until you 
asked. Hermione has consistently shown very little understanding 
about Quidditch, and although she is pleased for Ron, does not 
appear to be able to show much more enthusiasm than that. 
Truthfully, Hermione was too locked in her own crusade to really 
think about Ron's success. Perhaps this is a sign about her 
ambivalence towards Ron, but I'm more tempted to think it is a sign 
of her own selfishness. Although, thinking about it, she is not 
selfish when it comes to sharing Harry's troubles....

This might not be a popular thing to say, but my interpretation of 
OoP made an H/R Ship more likely. This is simply because both 
Hermione and Ron seem like sidekicks to Harry. They are separated 
from him by his destiny, but are thrust together by sharing 
knowledge of and support for Harry. And, they are of course both 
prefects, a job which does shut Harry out however much they try to 
include him in the rest of their lives. I think prior to OoP, I 
always thought that Harry and Hermione should be together, but OoP 
made this seem less likely.

Ali