Filed under - Why didn't they....?

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 91984

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" 
> <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> 
> > The only way out is for Dumbledore to take the blame himself 
> in order to get Harry off the hook. But wait...
> > 
> > That list was created during the first D.A. Hog's Head meeting 
> which, it has already been established, was not illegal. There 
> were even witnesses. In fact, Umbridge's own witness, Willy 
> Widdershins, as wellas the Innkeeper, would have seen the 
> students sign the list. That would make the list nothing more 
> than a record of who attended the first meeting, and 
> consequently, of no value in proving anything about what may or 
> may not have happened after the list was created. 
> 
> <<snip>>>. 
> 
> > So we must ask, why didn't they think of these two perfectly 
> good excuses to get out of this trouble?<
> 
> Er, because they wouldn't have worked.... The point is that the list
> is genuine, and Fudge and Umbridge are going to need more than 
> Dumbledore's word to make them believe it isn't.
> 

bboy_mn:

Ah but that was my whole point; the list IS genuine, but it is nothing
more than a genuine list of all the people who attended the first
legal meeting.

Also, neither of my solutions requires a lot of proof. They need only
convince Umbridge and Fudge the the Room of Requirements creates what
you need. Since no one really knows how the room works, it's hard for
Umbridge to dispute any claim made by Dumbledore. As far as the list,
it is indeed nothing more than a list of the people who attended the
first legal meeting. How could Umbridge prove otherwise, and how did
the list prove in any way that meetings had continued to occur after
the original meeting.

Witnesses saw the students sign the list in the Hog's Head. The
remaining question is, did the witnesses know the names of every
single person there, and did they count the number of people at that
first legal meeting?

The most damning part of the list was the title, 'Dumbledore's Army',
and that could have been explained away as a joke. They could have
claimed that the original name was, as Cho suggested, Defense
Association, and that Dumbledore's Army was added later as a joke.
That wouldn't have pleased Umbridge, but how could she have made it
into anything more sinister?





> Worse, it must have included people like Seamus who 
> weren't at the meeting at the Hogs Head.  Umbridge could have 
> thrown everyone on the list into detention until one of them was 
> willing to tell her the truth. Since none of them knew about 
> Hermione's hex, that wouldn't have taken very long.
> 
> Pippin

bboy_mn:

First, we don't know if Seamus was on the list, if he was then his
presents there, on the list, is only significant if the original Hog's
Head witness counted how many students were at the meeting, and/or
knew the names of all the people at the meeting. I don't think either
of them are likely, although admittedly possible. In addition even if
Willy the witness knew the exact number of students, did he tell
Umbridge? And, if he told her, would she notice one more name?

I think these questions, more than anything else, are the major
drawback to using either of the solutions I suggested, and I inicated
in my original post that both solutions would require a lot more
explaining. I would seem reasonable that in the heat of the moment
Dumbledore was looking for more immediate and final solutions, rather
than solutions that would instigate long extended discussion, which
would in turn open the possibility for the story to become more
confused, contradictory, and complex. 

In a sense, each of my alternate solutions opens the door to hundreds
more questions; Dumbledore's solution was immediate and final.

In addition, another person in this thread made the most important
point, Umbridge and Fudge are not exactly a people who ever let the
truth stand in the way of getting what they want. Dumbldore and Harry
can show them the truth, or at least, their favorable version of the
truth, but they have no power to make them accept it.

Just a few additional thoughts.

bboy_mn