[HPforGrownups] Digest Number 4306
Darrell Harris
tigerfan41 at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 5 16:04:02 UTC 2004
No: HPFGUIDX 92204
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There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: What would you think if.....
From: "Erika L." <erikal at magma.ca>
2. Re: Some questions (JKR's chat)--Quidditch
captain
From: "suehpfan" <stanleys at sbcglobal.net>
3. Re: JKR Chat- Sirius Black
From: "suehpfan" <stanleys at sbcglobal.net>
4. JKR CHAT: Sirius and the Mirror
From: "Steve" <bboy_mn at yahoo.com>
5. Weasleys Ages-The last and final post you
will ever need
From: "Molly Rahe"
<molly at elizabethjewelry.com>
6. Re: JK's latest revelations
From: "sienna291973"
<jujupoet29 at hotmail.com>
7. JKR Chat - What was not said - I - Harry's
Departure from
Privet Drive
From: "samnanya" <yswahl at stis.net>
8. JKR Chat - What was not said - II - SHIP
ALERT - HH
From: "samnanya" <yswahl at stis.net>
9. Re: More on the chat
From: "Geoff Bannister"
<gbannister10 at aol.com>
10. Re: More on the chat
From: "Geoff Bannister"
<gbannister10 at aol.com>
11. JKR Chat - What was not said - III - Remus
as Half Blood
From: "samnanya" <yswahl at stis.net>
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:48:32 -0600
From: "Erika L." <erikal at magma.ca>
Subject: Re: What would you think if.....
Jennifer Massey asked:
>What would you "feel" if JKR killed >Harry?
Merri replied:
>Harry sacrificing himself to the cause >of good would
be a great way
>to end the series.
<snip>
>if he hangs on just long enough to say a >beautiful
good bye to Ron
and
>Hermione and Hagrid, if he fades away >seeing a light
in front of
>him, and is welcomed into the WW version >of an
afterlife by his long
>lost mum, dad and godfather for an >eternity of
familial bonding,
>then I will probably have to be scraped >off the
ceiling I will be so
>happy. But that's just me.
Carol said:
>(I emphatically don't want him
>to use Avada Kedavra or any other >Unforgiveable
Curse. I do want him
>to use his wits and his courage and to >survive.)
>So how would I feel if JKR killed Harry? >Betrayed!
She'd be Wormtail
>in my book.
Alla said:
>Oh, yes. I don't know about betrayed, >but I most
certainly will be
>dissappointed. I want the good guys win >and I want
Harry to have some
>kind of normal happy life without Voldy >thing
breating over his
>shoulder all the time. :o)
I have to go with Carol and Alla on this one. I would
be very upset
were Harry to die at the end of the series. I simply
cannot agree that
Harry's death, even if that means reunion with his
family and an end to
his suffering, as Merri suggested, can in any way
constitute a happy
ending, or even a fully satisfying ending.
Merri said:
>Harry sacrificing himself to the cause >of good would
be a great way
>to end the series. Then at the least we >fans will be
assured that he
>won't be suffering anymore, and is >finally in for a
little peace.
I can't agree with this at all. It's too easy. I think
the books have
made it clear that suffering is a part of life. And
Harry does not have
the monopoly on suffering. Lupin, Sirius and Neville
come to mind as
other characters who've had to deal with forms of
suffering such as
grief, loss, betrayal, physical harship, and so on.
One can argue about the
degree to which any of them suffer, but to say that
death is okay
because it constitutes an end to a character's
suffering, is a denial of
life itself. I want to see Harry have a chance at
being happy in _this_
life before he goes on to be happy in the next.
After all, isn't part of the tragedy of Sirius'
death that he
missed out on so much of his life? He spent at least a
third of it in
Azkaban for a crime he didn't commit. No sooner does
he get out than he gets
killed. To me, Harry's demise would be equally tragic
since he's had
even less opportunity to enjoy life. He spent a decade
in a closet
suffering physical and emotional abuse and
deprivation-- not too different
from the situation Sirius is in during those years
come to think of it.
Yes, Harry's had some fun at Hogwarts, but he's also
had to spend a lot
of time just trying to keep himself in one piece. I
think Harry's been
surviving far more than he's been living. If he
defeats Voldemort I
think he may then have a real shot at life. Yes, he'll
always carry a
burden of grief and pain, but I still think life has
enough to offer Harry
to make that burden worth bearing. So no I would not
be satisfied with
Harry making a grandiose self-sacrificial exit.
Instead, I would feel
cheated. I want to see him _live_ before he dies.
Just my two knuts
Erika (Wolfraven)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:15:46 -0000
From: "suehpfan" <stanleys at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Some questions (JKR's chat)--Quidditch
captain
*bibwhang: Will Ron ever get on the Gryffindor
quidditch team?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, he's already there! The
question is,
whether the new Quidditch Captain will allow him to
stay!
Iris:
BIG SNIP>
And who will be the new Quidditch Captain? Quidditch
could be an
important narrative resort in the next book.
Susan:
Something in JKR's humorous reply made me think that
maybe GINNY
would be the new captain. I know that makes no real
sense, but
wouldn't it be just like a little sister to consider
NOT letting her
big brother be on the team? :-)
Siriusly Snapey Susan
Sue:
When I read this reply, I thought immediately that Ron
would be
captain. It seemed to fit her sense of humor also, as
Ron is
constantly thinking he should quit. I can just hear
him saying he is
going to fire himself.
finally some answers, but still so many questions....
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:30:29 -0000
From: "suehpfan" <stanleys at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: JKR Chat- Sirius Black
oldone:
Ok we know Sirius' body probabily won't return but,...
his
reflection giving advice through the mirror?
Maybe. We have seen mirrors that talk and give advice,
but their
kind of advice is usually limited to "Tuck in your
shirt, scruffy."
I think Sirius might very well return in the form of a
portrait. I'm
guessing that a wizarding portrait would have had to
have been
painted before the subject died, but since Sirius is
from a rich
family, I can easily imagine that there's a portrait
of him laying
around Grimmauld Place somewhere, probably under a
heap of junk in
the attic or something. We have seen portraits not
only give advice
but actually run errands for the living. Perhaps all
that needs to
happen is for that old portrait to be "developed" in
potions, kind
of like a photograph.
Steve
Lexicon-ing tonight.
This is what I think as well. I am also curius about
the portrait of
Harry that Dobby painted. After Harry opened it we
never heard about
it again. Was it left at Grimauld Place? Maybe in
the same musty
attic pile as an old portrait of Sirius? We know now
for sure that
house elves have powers wizards do not.
Sue
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 06:19:56 -0000
From: "Steve" <bboy_mn at yahoo.com>
Subject: JKR CHAT: Sirius and the Mirror
K Rowling made some comments about Sirius in the
recent chat. Sorry to
say that I think some people are taking this
information to extreme
and in my opinion unlikely conclusions.
************************************
Will the two way mirror Sirius gave Harry ever show up
again?
JK Rowling replies -> Ooooo good question. There's
your answer.
If we ever see Sirius again, what form will he be in?
JK Rowling replies -> I couldn't possibly answer that
for fear of
incriminating myself.
************************************
We could interpret this as JKR simply saying 'no
comment'. That
doesn't mean Sirius will come back, and equally
doesn't mean he won't.
However, if he does re-appear in the story, that
doesn't mean he will
literally come back from the dead. We have seen James
Potter appear in
the story several times, in Snape's worst memory, for
example. But
while he came back into the story, he did not come
back from the dead.
Any re-appearance of Sirius could be in the same vein.
In fact, I
would almost guarantee that Sirius will re-appear in
the form of
memories whether they are in narrative, recollection,
or in the
Pensieve.
One additional possiblilty is that Harry will able to
communicate
BRIEFLY with Sirius by talking to him through the Veil
in the Chamber
of Death. Keep in mind that someone now in the realm
of the dead, has
much different priorities that someone amoung the
living. Petty fears
and earthly desires mean very little to the ones who
live in perfect
peace and tranquility beyond the veil.
Other than involving someone like Trelawney, I see
this as the only
way to communcate with the dead. I also see it as a
sufficiently
limited way of communicating with Sirius as to not
disturb the story
significantly, and as not opening unresolvable plot
holes.
A greater, more exciting, but much less likely
possibility is that, as
many have predicted, the story will require Harry to
travel 'beyond
the veil'. That's not that uncommon a theme in
mythology/fantasy.
So, my point is that Sirius does not have to return
from the dead in
order for him to return to the story. And, I take
JKR's comment to
mean nothing more than the possibility that Sirius
will return to the
story. Perhaps there will be some revelation in
Sirius's backstory
that will be helpful to Harry.
Now, on to the mirror; my feelings are the same, the
mirror will
return to the story, nothing more. It's a handy device
just like the
Cloak and the Map. The Order now knows that failing to
keep Harry
informed and failing to give him a fast easy effective
method of
communication is very much to everyone's detriment.
Whether the matching mirror, or the mirror's
counterpart, will be at
the Order's headquarters, or whether Hermione will
simply create a
matching set of mirrors is difficult to say. But the
re-appearance of
the mirror in no way confirms, or in my opinion
implies, comminication
with Sirius; it merely says that in the future, Harry
will use it as a
handy communication device.
One devilish advantage JKR has in this type of
interview is that she
can deny the person asking a question any kind of
dialog. It's
Question then Answer, but no room or time for debate,
discussion, or
any kind of follow up. Certainly, if there had been
the opportunity
for discussion and follow up, she would have been
force to correct her
mistake about Percy's age relative to Charlie. For
someone who is
engaged in 'mystery', this format is very well suited
to her needs.
Just a few thoughts.
bboy_mn
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 06:49:36 -0000
From: "Molly Rahe" <molly at elizabethjewelry.com>
Subject: Weasleys Ages-The last and final post you
will ever need
O.K. Folks! I made a post at 6.30 a.m. this morning
and yes, it was
129 posts ago, and most of you don't have the time to
slog through
every message since the chat, so I thought I would
recap what I said.
Every fact is founded in canon or an actual quote from
J.K.R. herself.
People, we have a flint.
We can not guess as to weather or not Charlie left
school early or if
there was no quidditch finals those years. When
looking objectively at
the facts given to us, by the books and by J.K.R., we
have to come to
the conclusion that there is a definate discrepency.
Fact One:
Bill is in his late twenties in GoF. from past
interview with J.K.R.
late twenties are anything after 26. So he is at least
27 in GoF.
Charlie has won the quidditch cup for gryffindor seven
years before
Ron enters Hogwarts, making him either 23 or 24 when
Ron enters
Hogwarts.
Charlie would then be either 27 or 28 in OotP.
In this new interview, she has the boys ages spaced
out every two
years. So in OotP, Bill is most likely 29 or 30
Then we get to Percy. It is fact that Bill is the age
he is by a quote
from J.K.R. herself, and that Charlie is two years
younger. It all
fits too with all the book canon.
But Percy, whew! This is the Flint. He is only 19-20
by book canon
(OotP).So how can J.K.R. call him only two years
younger than Charlie,
who she established as two years younger than Bill,
Who she stated in
an interview as being at least 29 or 30 in OotP.
I smell a flint. Either statement she made could be
wrong. The book
could be wrong, althought, as it is published, this is
all jsut
speculative. The whole thing is so very wrong. She
either is
deliberatly lying to us (GASP!) or she made a boo-boo.
A flint.
The original post is below. It is a bit different than
this one as I
worked the exact ages out better here. But it is the
same.
Posted at 6.30 in the morning after being up all night
for the 4:00
a.m. chat
"O.K. I am realy at a loss here. It seems our beloved
author has made a
small error, or someone please point me in the right
directing. I am
getting all my info from interviews found on The
Lexicon and the books
According to JKR herself, Bill is at least 28 in book
5. Charlie is at
least 14 years older than Harry, because it had been 7
years since
Charlie has been in school by the time Harry arrived
(the not winning
a quidditch cup since Charlie thing). In this new
interview, she
states that there is two years between the boys. So
according to both
of her interviews;
When Harry is 11, Charlie is least 25.
Bill would be 27, as he has to be two years older than
Charlie
When oOtP comes about, Charlie is about 29. Bill is
31.
However, in this interview, she has Percy being only
two years younger
than Charlie, making him 27, which he is most
definatly not.
Oh! Thats it, this is way to contradicting for me! I
need help!
(Its only peoples ages Molly, get a grip!)"
OK I'm prone to forgetting things but where does it
say it was seven years since they had won the quiddich
cup? I remember seven years since the house cup but
all I can find for the QC is "I tell you, we're going
to win that Quidditch cup for sure this year," said
Fred. "We haven't won since Charlie left, but this
year's team is going to be brilliant. You must be
good, Harry, Wood was almost skipping when he told
us".
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