Newbie and some questions about Slytherins

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 92226

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Krissy" <surreal_44 at y...> 
wrote:
> Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> >>I'd like to respectfully disagree still.  I think it *is* free 
> will.  It's not EASY--in fact, many times it may be dastardly 
> difficult--but it is free will.  In the example I gave, I went on 
to 
> talk about high school students I'd had who came from racist homes, 
> and the Hogwarts crew are boarding school students, which means 
> they're even more free to act/think/learn free of their parental 
> influence.  If someone like Sirius could buck the Black family 
> traditions & expectations, others could, too.  
>  
> >>I understand what you're saying about parents holding some 
> control, esp. when they're in charge of the pursestrings, but I 
> still think most of this comes down to choices, very difficult 
> choices.  Even with parental restrictions, there is a degree of 
> choice available to young people.  I mean, even if parents forbid 
> something, the young person can make it known that they don't agree 
> with or approve their parents.  ACTION may be denied, but ATTITUDE 
> isn't.  Unthinking acceptance of parental views & stereotypes is 
> what I think good education fights against.
> >
> 
> 
> Actually, I disagree quite strongly with you on this point. I 
> completely understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, it's 
> the "Hermione" way of thinking; imposing ones ideals and beliefs on 
> a totally seperate society. The social structure for wizards is 
> quite different than what it is with the Muggles.
> 
> In today's society, especially here in America, it's much easier to 
> buck traditions and go against the beliefs one was brought up with. 
> However, in the wizarding world, I don't think it would be so easy.
> 
> First of all, there would be the parents' expectations. Depending 
on 
> the personality of both the child and the parent(s), that alone 
> might be enough to close a child's mind against the possibility of 
> new ideas. The parents also control the first 10 years of education 
> that the children receive; it's not so far-fetched to believe that 
> the truth about Muggles is distorted so that they won't know 
> anything truthful about Muggles.
> 
> Also, I think if I had a father like Lucius Malfoy, I'd be 
terrified 
> to go against him. I'm not a big supporter of the Abused!Draco, but 
> I could see how having a father like Lucius would keep me in line. 
I 
> am not certain as to what kind of relationship Draco has with his 
> dad. I bet Lucius would not hesitate to kill or curse his family 
> members if they moved against him.
> 
> I think a major part of the problem is Hogwarts itself. Susan 
stated 
> that "Unthinking acceptance of parental views & stereotypes is what 
> I think good education fights against." Unfortunately, I don't see 
> Hogwarts doing anything to prevent racism. In fact, I think it 
> almost encourages it. The children do indeed need to be educated, 
> but Muggle Studies is only an elective, not a required course. The 
> students are divided into houses based on personality and as far as 
> I've seen, learn nothing of each other. I don't know if I consider 
> taht good education or not.
> 
> Teachers haven't helped matters by showing favoritism to their own 
> houses, and I see them judging people based not just on behavior 
but 
> simply by being in a particular house. My point is, the students 
are 
> not given an education about Muggles, so how can one say that it 
> would be a simple matter of over-coming ideas that have been 
pounded 
> into you since you learned to talk?
> 
> I hope my ideas make sense to everyone. Thank you for your time.
> 
Susan:
Krissy, I appreciate your thoughtful response.  I think this is one 
of those things where slight variations in definitions of words we're 
using makes a difference.  And what I see as possible may be seen as 
impossible to others in different circumstances.  So we agree to 
disagree.  I don't think I like being accused of having a "Hermione 
way of thinking", though.  Yikes!  ;-)

I think you make an EXCELLENT point that Hogwarts isn't necessarily 
doing what I said good education does--fighting against unthinking 
acceptance of stereotypes.  I hadn't even thought about what you said 
re:  Muggle Studies--that it's not required.  Others have posted 
before on how they feel the word "Muggle" itself is used in a 
condescending [at best] way, if not in a derisive [at worst] way.  I 
think you point out a major flaw in the Hogwarts school, in its 
unwillingness to tackle the issue of stereotyping beyond allowing the 
Sorting Hat a few words at the opening feast!

Siriusly Snapey Susan