Malfoy/Karkaroff/ Imprisoned DE's

[lizvega2]

No: HPFGUIDX 92739

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ghinghapuss" 
<rredordead at a...> wrote:
> > Susan wrote:
> > Mandy, something in your post really struck me, and I wonder if 
> >it's okay to ask you (and/or others) to go off on a little 
tangent?  
> > You believe Malfoy to be intelligent [so do I] and the kind of 
guy 
> >to have been able to peg a traitor rather quickly.  You also 
wonder 
> >how much power Malfoy would have had at the time of Voldy's 
> >downfall.  
> > This all makes me wonder about Lucius....  
> > We know that Lucius stayed true to the dark arts during Voldy's 
> > absence, and we know he hung onto some artifacts which he had to 
> > quickly get rid of when the Ministry raids began, and that he 
had 
> > Riddle's diary to slip into Ginny's cauldron.  What do you all 
> >think about how *loyal* he was to Voldy during those "down" 
years?  
> >And how loyal now?  
> >  Is he on his own side or is he Voldy's right-hand man, ready 
> >to  die for the cause?  What do you all think?
> 
LizVega interrupting and snipping a great post...my apologies:

I'm thinking of all the DE's that were sent away the first time LV 
disapeared. With the one possible exception of the Lestranges, and 
Bella in particular, the ones we saw did everything in their power 
to get out, or stay out of Azkaban. Karkaroff named names, Ludo (No 
proof that he was a DE) played dumb, and Snape switched sides- I'm 
not going off on a Snape issue now because we have no idea what his 
intention truly were or are! 

Here's my question: of all the DE's that were sent to prison in OOP- 
Malfoy, the Lestranges minus Bella, Crabb, Nott, Avery, and the 
rest, How many of them will choose to save their own skin, and 
perhaps give info. to the ministry? I've always been under the 
impression that LV would swoosh into Azkaban, and save his minions- 
but that's not really his style, is it? He didn't seem that 
interested in trying to save anyone but himself and Bella in the MOM-
 Weren't we told that LV is just as ruthless where his supporters 
are concerned as with his enemies? 
> 
> Mandy here:
> Hi Susan.  I have at times thought about all the points you bring 
up 
> and my conclusion, (which is always ready to be proved wrong) is 
that 
> Malfoy is working for Malfoy alone.  That LV was useful for Lucius 
> when he was a young and impressionable man, but now Malfoy's own 
> arrogance rivals that of LV himself. I see Lucius considering LV a 
> nuisance, but a necessary evil in ridding the WW of those Lucius 
> doesn't consider worthy to be there.  I believe Lucius has the 
> stomach, desire and ability to carry out mass murder, but he will 
not 
> get his hands dirty, or tarnish his reputation, if there is an 
Evil 
> Overlord, with DE, to do it for him.  In other words Lucius is 
using 
> LV, just as LV is using Lucius.  Unfortunalty if you make a deal 
with 
> the devil....you will end up dead.  If Lucius isn't careful it's 
> going to be LV that eventually kills him (for his will be dead by 
the 
> end of book 7) and not one of the good guys. 
> 
> I think Lucius Malfoy never completely believed that LV was truly 
> killed by Harry Potter, and would one day come back.  LV had spent 
> many years researching how to cheat death, I think Lucius knew 
this. 
> 
> After the fall, Lucius did what he had to do to prevent 
imprisonment 
> in Azkaban, and subsequently enjoyed great personal success 
without 
> LV.  This sets up an interesting conflict of interest for our 
Lucius 
> Malfoy: Lucius knows in his soul, LV isn't really dead and has the 
> potential to return one day, yet his return means consequences 
that 
> Lucius doesn't want to deal with.  
> 
> I think Lucius joined the DE when he way quite young, perhaps 
still 
> in school, at 17-18, possibly to branch away from his own family.  
> Heirs of very wealthy parents are often disenfranchised, lost 
> children looking for a purpose in life, and I think LV gave Lucius 
a 
> purpose that suited his needs and sensibilities.  LV steadily rose 
to 
> power and brought Lucius with him, until LV fell at Harry's hands, 
15 
> years ago. (In WW time.)  Lucius had to do a lot of scrambling to 
> survive LV fall, and I have not doubt his family must have helped 
> him, much to his humiliation I suspect, he was only 26 after all.  
In 
> the mean time Lucius has gone on to rise in power himself, using 
his 
> intelligence, his political savvy, his ruthlessness and his 
cruelty. 
> Using dark magic learned and practiced under LV himself I 
suspect.  
> 
> Lucius has done very well for himself during LV absence, without 
> doing anything to look for his former Dark Lord. LV has a right to 
be 
> angery and suspicious of Lucius motives.  But I wonder if it was 
> Malfoy's near Azkaban experience that so scared the 26 year old 
pure 
> blood, that he stepped back away from LV.  Hagrid was scared 
enough 
> of the thought of the prison, and wizards were doing desperate 
things 
> to avoid going there.  It is not like any prison we know.  Lucius' 
> choice must have seemed clear at the time.  However he must have 
> known of the risk he was taking, no one leaves LV. But then again 
it 
> was LV who left them, or at least made it easy to forget him.  So 
> Lucius set about making himself as powerful as he could, so he 
would 
> never be venerable again, and in doing so, he made himself 
> untouchable and indispencible.
> 
> I expect when he discovered LV had returned it must have scared 
the 
> crap out of him, although I sure he suspected it coming for a long 
> time.  It could only have been out of fear for his very life that 
> Lucius Malfoy appeared at Tom Riddle's grave that night. He simply 
> had no choice, but of course he wouldn't ever show it. But LV was 
> right, Lucius did nothing to find him during his absence. Lucius 
has 
> a lot to answer for in LV opinion.  With the one exception the 
diary 
> it must have appeared to LV that Lucius had indeed abandoned him.  
> 
> I wonder about Lucius motivations with the Diary incident?  And 
why 
> now, after 12 years did Malfoy seem to change his tune about 
looking 
> for LV?  Did he realize it was only a matter of time before LV 
> returned in the flesh, and that he (Malfoy) had better do 
something, 
> quick?  Did the diary suddenly resurface for Malfoy to use?  Or 
was 
> Malfoy now in a position to be able to 'handle' LV return? 
> 
> I think it's the latter choice.  I think that before CoS, Lucius 
> Malfoy had maneuvered himself in to a position in the WW where he 
> was 'safe'.  He has covered his bases so to speak.  If LV never 
> returned Lucius was just fine.  But if LV did return, then Lucius 
> Malfoy was in a solid power position within the MoM that no other 
DE 
> could match, and LV would have no choice but to want to keep 
Lucius 
> around.  Voldemort's use of the word 'slippery' in describing 
Lucius 
> is clever and indicative, I believe it points to the fact that LV 
> would really like to torture Malfoy to death, but his hands are 
> tied.  Lucius is far too important with in the Ministry to touch, 
and 
> LV knows this.
> 
> Of course Malfoy now is in Azkaban. So how useful is Lucius going 
to 
> be to LV now?  I hope for Malfoy's sake he has a lot of favors to 
> call on in the MoM, and with the coming shake-up at the Ministry 
his 
> allies are still around for him to use.  Otherwise...I think 
Lucius 
> Malfoy will quickly become redundant and LV will have no choice 
but 
> to kill him.
> 
> I don't know if that answers any of you questions but perhaps it 
food 
> for thought. Let me know what you think. And thank you for giving 
me 
> the opportunity to write about my one of my favorite characters. ;-
)
> 
> cheers Mandy