JKR chat--Snape the coward or the one left forever?

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 92782

Susan:
I think if Voldy was going to be convinced to actually listen to 
an explanation, it would be more likely from the one he planned 
to punish, rather than from the one he planned to kill.  Does 
that make sense?
I was just trying to argue one rationale for Snape as coward....
 
Puja:
There is just one loop I find to that assumption, Susan. We've seen 
with wormtail that LV gives very harsh punishments. But since then 
we haven't seen any kind of trauma that he has suffered. My 
thinking is that Snape's work is more as a legilimens (DD says he's 
excellent at that). 
But I can see you're really keen to prove Snape a coward and no-
ghood person :-) I'd agree with you there :-D
 
Susan:
No, no, no!!!  Please don't get me wrong on that topic!  *I* happen 
to think Snape is truly working for DD & the Order, and that he is 
very brave!  No, *all* I was trying to do was argue the *possibility* 
that Snape might be the one *Voldy* thought of as the coward, rather 
than necessarily the one Voldy thought was gone forever.  
 
Whatever Voldy thought of Snape, I am also [at *this time, anyway] 
convinced that Snape has managed to convince him that he's still 
working for the DEs.

Glad for the chance to get my position clearly stated, even if it 
disappoints you that I'm on the "wrong" side. :-)
 
Siriusly Snapey Susan

Carol:
Poor SSS! I had to laugh when I saw Puja's post and wondered how you
would respond to it. 

Puja, Susan has merely been trying to convince me that LV must *think*
that Snape is a coward and taken him back into the fold after
punishing him. I, on the other hand, think that Karkaroff is the
coward and Snape is the one LV thought at that time had left him
forever. Unlike Susan, I think it was perfectly possible for Snape,
given his talents as an occlumens, to convince Malfoy (and, through
Malfoy, LV) that it was impossible for him to be at the graveyard even
though he's still (supposedly) a loyal DE. That being the case, LV
could accept Snape back without punishing him. (Karkaroff, the real
coward, won't get off so easily, IMO.) But, as I'm arguing in another
thread, Snape may be in trouble with LV again because of the Battle at
the MoM.

As my previous posts must surely indicate, I think Snape is brave,
intelligent, and loyal to Dumbledore, which is also Susan's view.
(Look at the middle portion of her screen name. :-) ) We were only
debating *Voldemort's* view of Snape, not our own. I do hope you'll
carefully read some of our many Snape posts (not just Susan's and mine
but Pippin's and Kneasy's and a lot of other people's). He's probably
the most discussed character on this board, and if we were to do a
poll, I think 3/4 of us would rank him as a good guy, at least as far
as the war against Voldemort is concerned. Anyway, it's funny how
posts can be misread, especially paragraphs taken out of context from
longer posts.

Puja, I do agree with you that Snape hasn't been punished, though I
think he wouldn't crawl or cringe after being crucioed any more than
Harry did. I think it's his wits and his occlumency that enable him to
be a successful spy (and lie his way back into LV's good graces), but
it was probably his prowess at potion-making that attracted LV's
attention to him in the first place (when he was nineteen or twenty).
As far as legilmency is concerned, I believe he needs a spell to do
that, which wouldn't work well with LV or Malfoy (though it might work
on Goyle!). Harry may think that Snape can read his mind, but Snape,
as far as we know, isn't really a legilmens: it's just that
intimidating look of his and an uncanny ability to "put two and two
together as only Snape could" that makes him seem as if he can.

Carol, who hopes you'll forgive her for laughing