Snape and the MOM

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 93153


>>>Carol:
>He [Snape] also would have no way of *instantly* notifying LV that
Harry was missing.<<<
  
>>Susan:
How do we know that, Carol?  Didn't DD tell Harry at the end of 
OoP that Order members have "more reliable means of 
communication" than fireplaces?  He didn't explain what those 
means are but left it open for a futute revelation.  (Fawkes, for 
one, seems to have some pretty powerful magical abilities; I 
wonder if he can't provide almost instantaneous communication?)  
Anyway, if DD & the Order have such means, why might not Voldy & 
his henchmen/women?<<  

>Carol: 
The means of communication DD talks about are for members of the
Order, not for Snape communicating with LV. Whatever means Snape has
for communicating with DD (and I think he must have used them to
summon DD to Grimmauld Place on the night of the MoM battle), we can
be sure he doesn't use the same means to communicate with LV. He's
certainly not going to communicate with LV using Fawkes. We can also
be pretty sure that Crouch Jr. communicated with LV by owl (the 
eagle owl dream almost certainly refers to a real eagle owl that 
Harry sees flying over the Forbidden Forest--I can look up the 
quote if you need it). I'm still convinced, BTW, that Snape's 
primary means of communication with LV and the DEs is some sort of 
arrangement with Malfoy. If there were some sort of instrument in 
his office that he uses, wouldn't Crouch Jr. have found it in his 
search?
> 
> Susan:
> I absolutely do not agree.  The point I was trying to make is that I 
> believe adult wizards--particularly those who have advanced skills--
> know about additional means of communication beyond those available 
> to Hogwarts students.  If the Order members have **as-yet-undescribed-
> by-DD** means of quick, reliable communication, why would it be so 
> hard to believe that Voldy and his followers have quick, reliable 
> means of communications themselves?  (Isn't the Dark Mark a pretty 
> quick, reliable means of communicating *something*?)  No, I didn't 
> think Snape used Fawkes, nor even that his means of contacting Voldy 
> are the same means that he uses for contacting DD, but I just don't 
> think we *know* anything much at all about the multiple ways 
> communication can occur in the WW, and I think we should be cautious 
> about assumptions of what *isn't* possible.   
> 
> I don't even want to go into the rest of this because I think we're 
> arguing in circles.  Suffice it to say, for me, Snape can make an 
> excuse any time he needs to by virtue of his position as "spy" for 
> the DEs.  There are things he can't do or say if he doesn't want to 
> compromise DD's trust, and if Voldy wants to keep Snape close to DD, 
> he's going to have to allow things in Snape's behavior that he 
> wouldn't tolerate in others.  Snape has a *tricky* path to walk, but 
> I believe he's smart & crafty enough to find excuses for the 
> information he does not pass along.  (You kind of said this, too, in 
> your very first sentence, above).  I would argue that the more 
> volatile the information, the more Snape can argue to Voldy that he 
> has to be careful not to tip off DD.  


Carol, making one last attempt:
I agree that the Dark Mark is a means of instantaneous communication,
but I don't see how it can be the means by which snape discovers his
information about the DEs or, conversely, communicates with LV. You
also haven't responded to my point that Crouch!Moody didn't find any
instrument of communication in Snape's office and that he apparently
uses owls to communicate with LV himself.

Also, if Snape had a safe, easy, and reliable means of communicating
with Voldemort, why didn't he use it in GoF to save himself from being
considered AWOL in the graveyard? Whether he was presumed to be "the
coward," (a view which will never make sense to me) or the one who
won't return (which does), he would not have been in danger of
punishment or death if he had sent Voldemort or Peter Pettigrew and
instant message. And he would not have had to go into clear and
obvious danger, sensed by both himself and Dumbledore, at the end of GoF.

I really don't understand why we're putting so much effort into
arguing this very small point, and maybe we're misunderstanding each
other's basic position somehow. But in any case, I just don't think
Snape can communicate instantly with Voldemort or Lucius Malfoy as he
apparently can with Dumbledore. Whatever he does requires him to go
into danger, and on at least one occasion to communicate with Lucius
Malfoy (who told him about seeing Sirius in dog form). We have no
canon evidence of his communicating directly with Voldemort, either
face to face or through the instant means you're suggesting).

If this last post doesn't convince you, and I have a feeling it won't,
can we agree to disagree on this? Neither of us *knows* the answer.
We're just putting the few pieces of evidence together differently.

Carol