Sorting and Choice (was:Snape's reaction to Harry in Slytherin )

[onnanokata]

No: HPFGUIDX 93347

> Berit:
>  Sadly I don't have my books with me at the time, but I'm almost 
>  sure Snape HAS learned that the Hat wanted to put Harry in 
>  Slytherin. In Harry's Occlumency lessons, the first time (?) 
>  Snape "legilimens" Harry (and if my memory is not playig me a 
>  trick), one of the memories racing through Harry's head when 
>  Snape "wathces" them, are the Sorting hat telling Harry he would 
>  have done well in Slytherin... 
>  Could anyone confirm this?
 
  
> Geoff:
> Oh yes, you're quite right. I almost missed it having just trawled 
> through the Occlumency bits about three times.....
> "He was five, watching Dudley riding a new red bicycle and his 
> herat was bursting with jealousy... he was nine and Ripper the 
> bulldog was chasing him up a tree and the Dursleys were laughing 
> below on the lawn... he was sitting under the Sorting Hat and it 
> was telling him he would do well in Slytherin...."
> (OOTP "Occlumency" p.472 UK edition)
 
 
> Susan:
> I realize this isn't really the point of what you're discussing, 
but 
> I continue to be slightly distressed that many people continue to 
say 
> that the Sorting Hat **wanted** to put Harry in Slytherin.  It 
reads 
> to me that the SH merely *presented* Harry w/ the information that 
he 
> could do well there...just as it implied he might fit in well in 
> Ravenclaw when it mentioned "not a bad mind"....  Why does that 
mean 
> it "wanted" him in Slytherin?  I don't think it did, at all.  I 
think 
> it "wanted" only for Harry to think hard, consider, and make his 
> CHOICE.

Dharma writes:

Susan,

Thank you for bring up this point.  I have been involved in more than 
on discussion with HP fans that have gone to this place.  Snape makes 
no comment about the Sorting Hats observations nor do we have any 
cannon that refers to Snape having any reaction to seeing that bit of 
Harry's memory.  He only comments on the dog. After learning that 
Harry is a Parslemouth in CoS, would Snape have been surprised to 
know that Slytherin could have been an option for Harry?  

But to get to directly to your point the Hat says:

"Though condemned I am to split you
Still I worry that it's wrong,
Though I must fulfill my duty
And must quarter every year
Still I wonder whether sorting
May not bring the end I fear"
(OotP p. 206, US edition)

This sounds to me more like fulfilling the obligation of its 
enchantment than any actual desire to place any student in any 
house.  The Hat clearly seems to have issues with dividing any of the 
children in any year.  

Often arguments about the Hat's interpretation of Harry strengths are 
pursued without reference to the fact that the Hat is enchanted to 
find out which students fit best where, not to exercise its own 
will.  If it went about placing students in houses they would 
actively choose not to be part of, would it really be doing it's 
job?  How good of a match could Harry have been to other students in 
Slytherin house, if he'd already decided he did not like them or what 
their house stood for?  He was prejudiced to the idea before putting 
the Hat on his head.

The fact that Harry chose not to be a Slytherin is ignored by many 
people as it relates to the Hat's enchantment.  The Hat is obligated 
to try to place students as they best meet the criteria of the 
founders.  Harry's personality had to be a good match for Godric's 
and Salazar's criteria, or neither would have been an option.  But, 
since Harry had not prejudice against Gryffindor house, is it not a 
better match the Slytherin?

For me these conversations become stilted to a Gryffindor vs. 
Slytherin perspective, when the issue for reader truly, in my 
opinion, is what-Harry-knows vs. what-is-the-realty.  Harry knows 
that the Sorting Hat places students in their houses.  But does he 
really know what the reality of being a member of any house other 
than Gryffindor truly is?