Why didn't Lily have to die?

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 93608

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Kimberly" <ekrbdg at m...> wrote:
>  
> >Carol:
> >I think Lily *did* know that she had to die for the "ancient magic" to
> >work. (We've discussed the possibility in earlier threads that she
> >herself placed a protective charm on Harry that could only work if she
> >died to save him.)
> 
> (Kimberly's comments)
> Well we know that Dumbledore put the charm on Harry, he says so
(OoTP, US ed. page 836).  "...and in dooing so, she sealed the charm I
placed upon you.   Your Mother's sacrifice made the bond of blood the
strongest shield I could give you."    
> 
> Are you implying that Lily had prior to that placed another charm ?

Yes. Dumbledore's charm protects Harry while he lives with the
Dursleys ("Lily's blood"). The charm I'm talking about (which is only
theoretical at this point) would have protected Harry through Lily's
death, deflecting the AK onto Voldemort. I don't think Lily intended
to create any sort of bond between Harry and Voldemort, much less the
transfer of any of LV's dark powers to Harry. But, yes, I think that
the "ancient magic" that protected him *may have* involved a charm
that she herself placed on Harry. If there's no such charm, then *any*
WW mother's self sacrifice would save her child from LV. Either that,
or Harry was born with special powers that would enable him and him
alone to stop LV. I don't think that either of these is the case.

Again, this idea has already been presented and the pro and con
arguments made in more detail than I have time for here. The main
points are
1) We know that we'll find out something special about Lily in Book 7
(JKR interview)
2) We know from the "Diagon Alley" chapter of SS/PS that Lily's wand
was particularly good for Charms, as James's was good for
Transfiguration (a clue that forshadowed his abilities as an animagus)
3) The scar is shaped like an eihwaz (defense) rune (yes, JKR said in
her recent chat that the shape was not the most important aspect of
the scar, but she didn't say that it isn't important at all
4) AK curses don't normally cause scars (and of course they don't
normally backfire, either)
5) Lily makes sure that LV kills her before he AKs Harry. Otherwise
the self-sacrifice wouldn't work and Harry would be killed by the AK.

There may be some additional points that I'm forgetting, but basically
I believe that the self-sacrifice is not enough *in itself* to protect
Harry and that he was not born with that protection, so something else
is necessary to explain what happened. The charm theory solves that
problem and fits the available evidence. (I am not saying that the
charm placed by Lily is a fact, only that it's a possibility that I
happen to believe in.)
   

Kimberly:
> I'm not so convinced, I would behave the same way if someone were to
attack my household, kill my husband and then come after myself and my
children. What would make her think that he was coming to kill Harry ?
  (and maybe I've missed a crucial point, could be)  She didn't know
about the prophesy, or did she ?    I thought that only a few knew of
it and I don't remember her being one of them.

Carol:
Actually, she did know about the prophesy, which is why she and James
were hiding in Godric's Hollow and needed a Secret Keeper to hide them
from LV.
    
 
> (Carol's comment) >She *had* to die *before* LV tried to kill Harry
because the AK would have succeeded if she were still alive to see it.
> 
> (Kimberly 's response)
> Absolutely, because if not, then there'd have been no sacrifice and
DD's charm wouldn't have been sealed. 
> 
> Kimberly, who would indeed like to read about an earlier discussed
topic of this

Carol:
Hooray! We agree on this one, except IIRC that DD's charm protecting
Harry wasn't placed until after Hagred rescued Harry from the ruins.
I'm talking about a different, earlier, and wholly theoretical charm
placed by Lily herself that DD may not even have known about. Here's
where I think the discussion started, with a post by Mandy explaining
her version of the theory, though the discussion branched off in
several directions:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/89679

See what you think. 

Carol