Dark Mark visibility & tattoos in general (was: Snape and the Order)

[Julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 93803

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote: [snip]  a minor clarification. the
> Dark Mark is not a tattoo, a Muggle "art form" created with ink and
> needles. I'm almost certain that he says somewhere, probably in GoF,
> that it was *burned* onto his arm, presumably through some sort of
> spell 

Inky (me)
(Sigh) I am so silly.  Yes. you're right Carol, the Dark Mark is a 
spell brand not actually a tattoo.  I knew that, I really did.  I 
guess I'm using the word "tattoo" as the closest "mark" that western 
humans use to mark their skin with (and that sentance isn't really 
well worded either, but I hope you get the general gist of thought).

<<Carol wrote: It's possible, as you  suggest, that it faded 
completely away during the Vapormort! years, but wouldn't that have 
indicated to the DEs that Voldemort was actually dead and their 
service to him was ended? I think that at least a trace of it must 
have remained.

(Me again) Actually its not my suggestion that the mark was less 
visible but what both Karkaroff and Snape said. I don't know if its 
just faded or invisible. Both men indicate that the appearance of the 
Mark has become more noticable.  And on 709/710 Snape tells Fudge 
that the Mark's appearance changes.  "It is not as clear as it was an 
hour ... ago... but you can still see it."  So when Voldemort is 
actively signalling his followers, it burns black (gah! Burns black, 
why, oh why, did I call it a tattoo?)

I agree totally "one of the purposes was to enable DEs who didn't 
know each other to recognize each other" as you said, although I tend 
to think that its not just a matter of rolling up sleeves, but more 
of a magic signature to the brand. I think that the dormancy of the 
Mark was a further factor in the DE's ability to lie low after 
Voldemort vaporized (snicker, love your 'vapormort'!)  

<<Carol wrote: ....but wouldn't that have 
indicated to the DEs that Voldemort was actually dead and their 
service to him was ended? I think that at least a trace of it must 
have remained.

(me) Since he's not around to summon the Death Eaters thorough the 
Mark, the less fanatical (or lazy if you will) Death Eaters could 
justify not looking for Voldemort and trouble, and probably did 
think --like the rest of the wizarding world-- that Harry Potter had 
killed Voldemort.  Otherwise why hide Harry from the wizarding 
world?  The master might be gone, but there are still followers who 
continue his policies and enact a little revenge.  

I've seen this question skirted around in the few months that I'll 
been a member of the group.  People have talked about how many DEs, 
about who was and wasn't at the graveyard, etc.  But I haven't seen 
much on the DEs as an organization without Voldemort. 

Voldemort is an evil villan but he's not the cause of the DE's 
existance.  He's only a charasmatic leader who organized them.  They 
all share a belief system about wizardly superiority and purity of 
bloodline.  These beliefs didn't vanish with Voldemort.  So what are 
they doing in the 13 or so years Voldemort is incomunicado and not 
giving orders.  Quirrel (accidently) and later Wormtail find him 
abroad.  V. doesn't find them.   

Wizards at large believe he's dead.  And I think that includes most 
of the Death Eaters too.  Voldemort himself scolds his followers 
during the Graveyard rebirth for abandoning him and not seeking him 
out (we know he was holed up part of the time in Albania, but 
obviously he wasn't able to communicate and summon the DEs to him). 
The summons to the Graveyard must have been a real shocker, for 13 
years or so Lucius Malfoy and who ever else makes up the upper 
echelon of the DEs have had the organization to themselves.  Now they 
are demoted to followers again.

Hum.  Now that I think of it I'm less convinced that that DArk Mark 
serves as a visual recognition device (besides its primary function 
as V.'s tool to summon/contact his followers).  Voldemort seems to 
be the only one who can activate it--hence the 'fading' both 
Karkaroff and Snape refer to.  I can see it burning darkly
during a Death Eater function or raid, when Voldemort activates it so 
that the 'team' knows each is supposed to be there (no aurors in 
disguise).  I think there must be more than just a visual quality to 
it, perhaps a non-visible magical resonance or some such 
that all who bear it can pick up on.  Still mulling this over.

I agree, it was a courageous **and** a frustrated move on Snape's 
part to shove the Mark under the nose of an angry and in-denial 
Fudge.  But I assume that Snape can only tolerate so much stupid self 
delusion about a life threatening danger as Voldemort.  And the 
dialog notes Snape as speaking 'harshly' to the minister.  Much more 
comfortable and safe to keep the mark hidden, and coast along under 
Fudge's self-delusion that its all over, than to remind him by 
showing off Voldemort's name tag.  

Inky/Julie
who is so thrilled that Carol took the time and commented on her 
ramblings.