Fields of Magic (was Re: Potions Master Question)

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 93960

x
> Neri:
> Oops, I was apparently not very clear here. I certainly did not 
mean 
> to say that Potions is not useful. It is extremely useful, as you 
> show with your examples. I was talking about how distinguished is 
the 
> area in the eyes of the WW. There are several factors that might 
make 
> a field of magic more or less distinguished than others, and 
utility 
> is only one of them. Some other factors are:
> 
> 1. The strength of the theoretical basis. This is considered very 
> important in science (and JKR's magic is modeled on science in many 
> senses). Some areas of pure mathematics have no practical utility 
> whatsoever, but are still considered important because of the 
strong 
> theory. OTOH medicine, which is the most important science from 
> practical considerations, doesn't have a very strong theoretical 
> basis (which is why we have alternative medicine but not 
alternative 
> physics or alternative mathematics). 

snip

Potioncat: 
 I'm not sure I follow this line of reasoning.  My 
comments would be so far OT as to earn a howler.  So I think I'll 
leave it. I do agree that Potions is similar to medicine. 


Neri:
> 2. Just plain show. Potions (and Herbology) require tedious manual 
> work and not much impressive "wand waving". Charms, DADA and 
> especially Transfiguration are very impressive to watch. I know 
this 
> is superficial, but I'm not talking here about the actual 
importance 
> of the field. I'm talking about how distinguished it is considered 
in 
> the eyes of other wizards.

Potioncat:  
Agreed on the drama point.  But some things require 
transfiguration and some require potions.  I don't see one as being 
seen as more important than the other.  


Neri: 
> 3. Power. Fields that require the wizard to be more powerful are 
> likely to be more distinguished. It seems Potions and Herbology 
> require very little power (in fact, I can't see why a muggle or a 
> squib won't be able to brew many of these potions). OTOH 
> Transfiguration seems to require a lot of magical power.

Potioncat: 
I see this view as a real mistake.  If Potions did not take power, 
Lupin could make his own wolfsbane potion.  Just as not all adult 
wizards can form a corporeal patronus, not all can make certain 
potions.  Just because you do not wave a wand or mutter an 
incantation does not mean it is not powerful magic. 


Neri: 
> 4. Tradition. Some fields are distinguished just because they were 
> practiced for many years by famous and learned people. Potions 
seems 
> to have rather humble origins (it is basically cooking). 
> Transfiguration is traditionally considered the mark of the 
greatest 
> wizards.

Potioncat:
I'm not sure what tradition you're referring to here.  On the Wizard 
Card DD was listed as being famous for three things and none of them 
were Transfiguration.

I will agree that if Potions is viewed as something "witches" perform 
that it would be held in less esteem than a magic that is 
traditionally for "wizards."  (I've seen the respect for doctors 
decline as women entered the field.)


Neri: 
> Back to utility, Potions is indeed very useful, but so is 
> Transfiguration. You forgot to mention switching, vanishing and 
> conjuring spells, which are all part of Transfiguration. Conjuring 
> especially seems dead useful. I wonder what are its limitations. 
For 
> example, could you just conjure a cup of polyjuice potion out of 
thin 
> air instead of bothering to brew it? It hardly seems fair.

Potioncat: 
 I don't know the rules here either,  I recall a post that 
indicated that conjured items were temporary, but I'm not sure if 
that was canon.


Neri: 
> Regarding DADA, I think Potioncat was right in classifying it as a 
> specialized area of Charms. It is, however, considerably more 
> dangerous than standard Charms. It also has great practical 
> importance, a lot of impressive wand waving, a celebrated 
tradition, 
> and requires a lot of power. However, I suspect that the reputation 
> of DADA is somewhat tarnished because, especially in the high 
level, 
> the distinction between DADA and the Dark Arts is so very fine. 
>snip<

Potioncat:  
I agree here.  I'll go out on a limb though, canon doesn't support it 
except through interpretation.  As we've seen DADA taught, it looks 
like Charms.  But I would think it could include aspects of 
Herbology, Potions, Transfigurations (have I forgotten anything?)   
So I would not be surprised to see a lesson showing the use of a 
plant or potion against certain dark creatures. 

For example, when Molly has the kids spraying the doxies with a 
potion, that is DADA.  

Neri: 
> In addition to the above, we also have the clues I've already 
> mentioned: The headmaster and his deputy were/are Transfiguration 
> teachers, and Snape would much rather be the DADA teacher than the 
> Potions Master. This is not conclusive canon, only my impression, 
but 
> I think the order of status (again, not the order of actual 
> importance, which is something else) is approximately:
> Transfiguration > DADA > Charms > Potions and Herbology > other 
> subjects.

Potioncat:
For the purpose of this post, I won't argue about whether Snape 
really wants the DADA position.  But, yes, DADA seems to have 
more "status."  And I think students would be more excited about 
Transfigurations and Charms than potions as a class, even if it 
wasn't Snape teaching it.

But as far as status within the adult community goes: Currently the 
two teachers with the most status at Hogwarts are the Transfiguration 
teacher (deputy headmistress) and the Potions Master. They seem to 
always be at DD's side.  This in spite of the fact that the Charms 
teacher has more tenure than Snape and we know the Herbology teacher 
is older (Wait, we do know that don't we?  We just don't know how 
long she's been teaching.) So I don't see that Transfiguration is an 
overwhelming selling point in the route to Headmaster and academic 
status.  

Also, to enter NEWT level Potions, one must have a very high mark on 
OWLS.  I can't see that being the case if it wasn't esteemed.

Neri: 
> Just an opinion (I thought shipping was the touchy subject:-)


Potioncat: Oh, I don't dare go to shipping! : )