Fields of Magic (was Re: Potions Master Question)

[nkafkafi]

No: HPFGUIDX 93991

I combine posts from Potioncat and Carol, snipping here and there. 
For those who came in late, the discussion is about whether 
Transfiguration has a higher status than Potions (my own opinion) or 
are they approximately equal. 

Neri wrote: <snip>
> 3. Power. Fields that require the wizard to be more powerful are
> likely to be more distinguished. It seems Potions and Herbology
> require very little power (in fact, I can't see why a muggle or a
> squib won't be able to brew many of these potions). OTOH
> Transfiguration seems to require a lot of magical power.

Potioncat:
I see this view as a real mistake. If Potions did not take power,
Lupin could make his own wolfsbane potion. Just as not all adult
wizards can form a corporeal patronus, not all can make certain
potions. Just because you do not wave a wand or mutter an
incantation does not mean it is not powerful magic.

Carol:
But I'm almost
certain that JKR said in an interview that no Muggle could brew a
Potion even if he or she could somehow acquire the ingredients. You
have to have magical ability to infuse the potion with magical powers.
And I'm guessing that the more powerful the wizard, the more potent
his potions

Neri again:
I indeed didn't remember the part about muggles unable to brew a 
potion (big disappointment there. I was going to try doing the 
Drought of Peace before filling my tax report). But Potions lessons 
are very well documented in the HP books and we've also got some 
details regarding the brewing of a very advanced potion, the 
polyjuice. Yet I can't remember a single case where the brewer is 
required to contribute any magic of his own into the process. 
Whenever Harry or Neville botch it, which is all the time, it is 
never suggested that it is because they lack magical power or potion 
aura or something like this. It is always because they forgot to add 
the salamander blood or the pomegranate juice or whatever. So when I 
read about Snape preparing the Wolfbane potion I assumed that it was 
so difficult because its preparation is extremely complex, not 
because it requires a lot of magical power. 

Neri:
> 4. Tradition. Some fields are distinguished just because they were
> practiced for many years by famous and learned people. Potions
seems
> to have rather humble origins (it is basically cooking).
> Transfiguration is traditionally considered the mark of the
greatest
> wizards.

Potioncat:
 I will agree that if Potions is viewed as something "witches" perform
that it would be held in less esteem than a magic that is
traditionally for "wizards." (I've seen the respect for doctors
decline as women entered the field.)

Neri again:
Oops, I didn't mean to come out as the chauvinist pig here. One of 
the most ancient and respectable figures in the witchcraft tradition 
is Circe, who was a Transfiguration expert. She turned Ulysses' 
friends into animals (IIRC pigs...) and would have done the same to 
the great hero himself if he hadn't got help from the gods. Of 
course, Circe was described as very beautiful and the ruler of her 
own island. The type of witch who is traditionally associated with 
brewing potions has a much lower image, but not necessarily because 
of gender. More likely because it seems to imply lack of power. Those 
witches who could turn the naughty prince into a frog always got more 
respect than that.

Hey, I've just surfed to the Lexicon to verify my memory re Circe and 
I ran into Cliodne the druidess. Turns out she was a bird animagus.

Neri wrote:
<snip> Conjuring especially seems dead useful. I wonder what are its
limitations. For example, could you just conjure a cup of polyjuice
potion out of thin air instead of bothering to brew it? It hardly
seems fair.

Potioncat:
I don't know the rules here either, I recall a post that
indicated that conjured items were temporary, but I'm not sure if
that was canon.

Carol:
Clearly you *can't* conjure polyjuice potion or Veritaserum or
whatever out of thin air, or a skilled wizard like DD or Barty Jr.
would do so--and Snape would be out of a job because all his skills
would be useless. And you can't conjure food out of thin air, either,
or Sirius wouldn't have had to live on rats in GoF.

Granted, DD can conjure a comfortable chair out of thin air, but it
probably disappears when he's through with it, just as leprechaun gold
disappears after a few hours. JKR explains in another interview that
there are limitations to magic, and one of them is the sort of things
that can be conjured. (IMO, The Room of Requirement operates on the
same principle. Whatever you need is conjured out of thin air, but
disappears the moment you leave the room.) A potion, OTOH, will stay
on the shelf in its bottle until its needed.

Neri:
I agree with the principle. Still, polyjuice works for only one hour 
anyway, so who cares if the conjured polyjuice disappears after it 
had already done its job? 
  
Potioncat:
For the purpose of this post, I won't argue about whether Snape
really wants the DADA position. But, yes, DADA seems to have
more "status." And I think students would be more excited about
Transfigurations and Charms than potions as a class, even if it
wasn't Snape teaching it.

But as far as status within the adult community goes: Currently the
two teachers with the most status at Hogwarts are the Transfiguration
teacher (deputy headmistress) and the Potions Master. They seem to
always be at DD's side. This in spite of the fact that the Charms
teacher has more tenure than Snape and we know the Herbology teacher
is older (Wait, we do know that don't we? We just don't know how
long she's been teaching.) So I don't see that Transfiguration is an
overwhelming selling point in the route to Headmaster and academic
status.

Neri again:
I realize I'm getting into dangerous water now, but why do you think 
Snape has more status as a teacher than Flitwick? It is not my 
impression at all. Snape is in the Order and DD trusts him, but this 
is associated with his secret agent role, not his teaching position. 
DD has trusted Hagrid even longer than he's trusted Snape, yet Hagrid 
is surely not a high-status teacher. Again, this is only my 
impression, but Flitwick's sense of humor and complete ease with the 
students strikes me as a teacher who is very sure about his status, 
while Snape's animosity is a typical defense mechanism for a teacher 
who feels insecure. You don't see Flitwick (or McGonagall or Sprout) 
haunting the corridors at night in search for rule-breaking students. 
My reading of Snape's status in the eyes of his fellow teachers 
is "talented and ambitious, but still young. Needs to cool down and 
mellow a bit. In twenty years or so we might let him have a go at the 
DADA or Transfiguration jobs".   

Potioncat:
Also, to enter NEWT level Potions, one must have a very high mark on
OWLS. I can't see that being the case if it wasn't esteemed.

Neri again: 
This also strikes me as a Snape thing, not a Potions thing. Several 
list members hope Snape will be promoted to DADA only because the 
next Potions Master might be more reasonable and Harry will be able 
to get into the Potions NEWT class.

> Neri:
> Just an opinion (I thought shipping was the touchy subject:-)

Carol:
You forgot that Potions is associated with Snape, the ultimate touchy
subject! ;-)

Neri again:
Ah, now finally things are clear to me. But if Snape becomes a nice 
guy he'd lose all his charm. He should stay wicked, sleazy and 
inwardly insecure.

Neri