If DD knows, then why...? [was: Snape, trying very hard not to smile?]

[suehpfan]

No: HPFGUIDX 94012

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> > SUSAN:
> <snip>
> > I am left w/ the question that Potioncat has alluded to:  Do 
others 
> > think Snape was trying to discover whether Harry is a 
> > Parselmouth...or do you think he was just being mean...or setting 
up 
> > some other "test" for Harry?
> 
> Carol:
> I don't think Snape is ever "just being mean." There's a method in 
his
> meanness, so to speak. I don't know what he was attempting to 
discover
> by having Draco cast serpensortia, but it must have had some 
purpose.
> Maybe he simply thought it was an appropriate spell for a Slytherin 
to
> cast and one that Harry would need to watch out for at some point. I
> don't see how he could have known about the basilisk or guessed that
> Harry spoke Parseltongue, but he certainly realized the significance
> when Harry did so. Whether Snape knew anything about young Tom 
Riddle
> or not, he certainly knew that LV was a Parseltongue and that the 
gift
> (or is it a curse?) was very rare.  So believe it or not, I'm on the
> fence with this one. (Scoot over, Sue! Make room for me!)
> 
> 
>  Potioncat wondered:
>  > Why do you think DD knew Tom Riddle opened the Chamber?  I'm 
sure 
>  > he knew Hagrid didn't but what did he know for certain? How 
would 
>  > he know it was a basilisk? Perhaps he tried to talk to Myrtle, 
but 
>  > didn't learn anything. Harry had a difficult enough time getting 
>  > her to talk and she may not have talked to a professor.  For 
that 
>  > matter, DD may have been hampered in his investigation in the 
>  > early days by Headmaster Dippit 
> > 
> > 
> > SUSAN:
> > Yes, I think these are good questions as well. Is there something 
> > in canon which makes people *sure* DD knew Tom opened the Chamber 
> > and what was within it, or is it the "all-knowing DD" 
assumption?  
> > <snip>
> 
> Carol:
> Dumbledore may have suspected that Tom had opened the Chamber, but
> surely he would have testified against him at Hagrid's expulsion
> hearing if he had conclusive evidence. Instead, Hagrid's wand was
> broken and he was expelled. All Dumbledore could do was get him a 
post
> as gamekeeper (which begs the question of how a Transfiguration
> teacher who was not yet headmaster could hire a thirteen-year-old
> gamekeeper, and what happened to his predecessor, Ogg, but I won't 
go
> there). Meanwhile Tom got a special award for services to the 
school,
> killed his father and grandparents over the summer holiday, and
> returned to Hogwarts to become Head Boy. Did DD, who reads the 
Muggle
> papers, suspect him of that murder, too, and yet say nothing? Or 
maybe
> no one in the WW cared to listen because the dead people were just
> Muggles? I'm starting to find this train of thought disturbing.
> 
> To return to the point, I think Dumbledore suspected that Tom had
> opened the Chamber and may even have suspected that it contained a
> basilisk (the snake/Slytherin connection combined with the
> petrification of the students) but could prove nothing and so he did
> nothing. In CoS, when Mrs. Norris is petrified and the writing 
appears
> on the wall saying that the Chamber has been opened, he only says 
that
> Mrs. Norris is not dead but petrified and that no second year could
> have performed such advanced Dark Magic. Possibly he communicates 
his
> suspicions to Snape that the heir of Slytherin has returned to 
Snape,
> who would be on the alert for a Parseltongue who could open the
> Chamber, but he seems to have kept any suspicions that Riddle/
> Voldemort had returned to himself at that point.
> 
> When Colin Creevey is petrified, McGonagall asks what the melted
> camera lens means and DD answers, "It means that the Chamber of
> Secrets is indeed open again," and when she says, "But, Albus. . .
> surely . . . *who*?" he responds, "The question is not *who*, the
> question is *how*" (CoS Am. ed. 181-82). So it sounds as if he knows
> at that point that Riddle/Voldemort in some form has somehow opened
> the Chamber, but it's still not clear whether he knows that the
> creature is a basilisk. McGonagall, OTOH, is clearly clueless. For
> much of the rest of the book, DD is not even present. We learn at 
the
> end that he was one of the few people who knew that Tom Riddle was
> Voldemort--no indication of whether he already knew about the 
basilisk
> unless you count ssending a phoenis and a sword to help Harry. 
> 
> Well, I thought I knew where I was going on this post, but now I've
> succeeded in confusing myself. At any rate, I started out thinking
> that DD didn't know that Tom Riddle had opened the Chamber. Now I'm
> leaning the other way--he either knewor strongly suspected but had 
no
> proof.
> 
> Coming to my rescue, SSS?
> 
> Carol

I'll help Carol! (At least I will try.)  I didn't see any reluctance 
in Myrtle about sharing her experience, in fact when Harry 
asked, "Myrtle's whole aspect changed at once.  She looked as though 
she had never been asked such a flattering question."  CoS US pb 
299.  If DD had bothered to ask, she would have been more than 
willing to share.  

I tend to think that, as you said, there was no way for DD to prove 
what he believed.  There was probably nothing he could do about the 
Chamber either.  Only a Parselmouth can open it, he just had to wait 
and hope another one didn't come along.  I am sure if he had 
suspected TR would figure out a way to possess other people to do it 
for him he would have made *sure* that didn't happen.

Once it was open, all he could do was sit and wait.  Harry was the 
only one who could do anything about it anyway.  I do wonder why DD 
didn't just head down there with Harry but as others have already 
said, that would have made a very short book.  Maybe only a 
Parselmouth could destroy the Basilisk (or maybe only an ancestor or 
heir could)...

Sue, Who budges up on the fence to make room for Carol.  Welcome 
aboard!