Snape as A-hole Drill Sargeant [was: Re: Harry, Snape,Occlumency]

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 94413

Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> > Are 11- or 12-year-olds who see themselves as boarding school 
> > students able to *learn* under the Asshole Drill Sergeant 
> > methods the way an 18-year-old army recruit is?  [Don't jump 
> > down my throat anyone, please, it's just a question!]  *I* think 
> > that kids that age would have to know *something* of why they're 
> > being treated this way in order for them to not "pull a Neville" 
> > [be so frightened he can't learn] or "pull a Harry" [be so angry 
> > he won't/can't learn].  

Shaun Hately wrote: 
> Well, let me say this. I had teachers who were *very* Snape like. 
> Very much so. Two of them. My school certainly didn't encourage 
> them to be that way - but the results they achieved were so 
> spectacular that they were allowed to get away with it. And I'd 
> say 95% of their students benefitted *incredibly* from their 
> method of teaching - though most of us hated it at first, and most 
> of us feared and hated those teachers at least to begin with (one 
> of them, I was fortunate enough to have for a number of years - 
> and as you got older and more competent, he became much more 
> reasonable to work with). 
> So, yeah, I think kids are able to learn under that method. 
> Whether they should have to - well, that's another questions. But 
> it really would be hard to argue with the results these teachers 
> obtained.
<snip>
> Even if Harry and Neville don't do as well in potions as they 
> could - there may be even more kids in those classes doing far 
> better than they would with another teacher. We just don't know.

Siriusly Snapey Susan again:
Two quick points & a question, Shaun.

1)  You are very right that we don't know how many of the other kids 
in Snape's class are doing.  

2)  I think you may be hitting on something important about your 
experience w/ those two teachers *and* about Snape as well.  You 
learned *a lot* from those two teachers.  And, unless I'm mistaken, 
one thing we DON'T hear the Hogwarts kids saying is that Snape 
doesn't know the materials he's teaching.  On the contrary, I think 
they recognize his gifts as a potions master.  In my experience as a 
teacher, and thinking of the one colleague in my school who 
was "Snape-like" in his "tyranny", one of the key reasons why kids 
put up w/ that teacher's antics is that he was so knowledgable about 
the subject.  If the teacher was incompetent *and* a tyrant, they 
never would have, and I suspect if Snape didn't know his stuff, 
there would be a lot more open protesting going on.

Q:  Since you didn't mention this part, how old were you when you 
had those two Snape-like teachers?  It may not matter, but I'm just 
curious.  Your comment about working w/ the teacher over time makes 
me wonder if I'm not somewhat right about the ability of younger 
kids (11, 12 or so) being less able to handle Asshole Drill Sergeant 
teachers.

Siriusly Snapey Susan