[HPforGrownups] OT: Drill Sargeant (with a tiny bit of ontopic talk...)

[Silverthorne]

No: HPFGUIDX 94631

Neri:
Speaking as someone who had several "asshole" drill sergeants, my personal
opinion is that this method of training is extremely counterproductive, and
the fact that armies around the world keep using it just goes to show that
armies are extremely conservative institutions who would rather use an
ineffective method of training
than break a sacred tradition. The main objective of the asshole sergeant is
to punish his poor trainees for the humiliations he had suffered from his
own asshole sergeant at the time. I was sincerely hoping that the WW has
managed to avoid this ugly muggle tradition, as it seems to have managed
avoiding male chauvinism.

{Silverthorne}
Um....*most* of the people I've talked to who have been in the military and
have also had these people for training would strongly disagree, Neri. Three
of them are women, including my lifemate (If I say 'wife', will that help to
make that point clearer?). . The method is not there to 'punish' the
trainees for something the Sergeant went through himself (ALA "Full Metal
Jacket"). All of the people I know and talk to, but for one, uniformly agree
that the training was effective, got the job done, and prepared them for
life as a military person. They also agreed that it was tough, painful until
they 'got' what the Sergeant was trying to teach them, and could sometimes
be humiliating--especially when the whole unit ended up 'paying' for one
team member's mess up by joining in on the punishment (Anything from situps
to cleaning various places at camps...with, yes, toothbrushes.). Their
attitude is that it is a time-honored method that works....as for the one
that didn't agree--this guy can barely keep his own house clean as a
civilain...I've actually had to make trails through the crap on his
floor....and the last time I visited him, I ended up doing the dishes in the
sink for him--some of which still had food in them...from three months ago.
Yuck. The guy, in short, is not much for discipline.

I think that you also missed the part where I said that military is not for
everyone, nor are the methods. (just as most kids cna blow off Snape...and
the few like Neville cannot)

Neri:
It is definitely true that a soldier should train performing his role under
extreme pressure, but only after he had mastered it. Learning any new skill
under this kind of pressure is next to impossible.

{Silverthone}
Hmmmmm...then the military really *has* changed. Odd....maybe I should go
review Air Force training with my cousin Jason Nygren, see what exactly he
went through to get his wings...because the other three branches seem to
share a less...um...stress free method. (That would be Navy (Grandfather,
Lifemate, 2 co-workers), Marines (Uncle, best friend, boyfriend, 1
co-worker), Army (Three former boyfriends, 2 female friends, three
co-workers).

Neri:
Although this is probably OT, I simply must mention here that the best
commander I ever had was my drill sergeant during basic training. He was
down right scary. We all called him "The Nazi" behind his back and he knew
it; in fact he cultivated this faade.

{Silverthorne}
As do a majority of the trainers, including the appearently real flaming
'assholes'. During basic, they are not there to be your friend. They're
there to get you prepared. Popularity is not on these trainers minds, nor is
having a social life with the young pups. It's their job to be hated--the
'surrogate enemy' as it were--that way you'll know what to do with the real
enemy once you meet it...Perhaps I should have included a few ancedotes
where I was told about the times when my friends and family ended up going
out for a beer with their Sergeant after graduation and the like (including
the ones that told them was pieces of s*** they were, how thier momma must
have taught them wrong, etc etc ect...infront of god and everyone no
less)...^^; Incidently...they also say they've had 'Snape' as trainers
before. Weren't bothered a bit...

Neri:
took us the whole three months to realize what a great and hilarious person
he was behind this facade. While being extremely frightening, he never
humiliated any of us in front of the others, nor alone for that matter. He
is my living proof that it is possible to be a great drill sergeant without
being an "asshole" drill sergeant.

{Silverthorne}
One person's humiliation is another's no-brainer. Some people consider being
asked to 'get down and give me fifty' for a mistake a humiliation...and they
get even more bent out of shape when the rest of the team gets in trouble
with them (Forgetting that the message there is "You screw up, we'll all get
in trouble"). Just as some people could handle Snape's snark and get on with
life without it affecting them one little bit other than being annoyed by it
while some are left quivering in the dust. Neri, other then the
'humiliation' part, you actaully *proved* my point (with the Sergeant Nazi
ancedote--'he was downright scary' and 'he cultivated this facade') rather
then refuted it.

As for how that all relates to Snape and his methods--basically, he's in
Drill Sergeant mode, but he's not in a military camp. So...yep...he's a
monster. At least to our little muggle eyes. Carol brought up a good point
though--the WW is not the kind gentle place we live in (or would like
to)...so...*shrugs* Maybe what we find abhorent and would never want for our
non-military children is not a problem for the WW parents...

Anne