[HPforGrownups] Re: OT: Drill Sargeant (with a tiny bit of ontopic talk...)

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 94707

I've been following this with interest, because my father was a 
military drill instructor - not a sergeant because he was in the 
Navy, but he spent the latter part of his Naval Career as a Recruit 
Instructor, and apparently was a good one. My mother had also been 
a senior Naval NCO before I was born - so my childhood was rather 
regimented (-8

On 31 Mar 2004 at 14:54, cubfanbudwoman wrote:

> EnsTren at a... wrote:
> > Humans learn quickly when our lives depend upon it, it's a natural 
> reaction.  If you are in iminante danger of getting physically harmed 
> or killed your brain and body kick into overdrive, which is why 
> craming and doing it the night before it's due papers sometimes work 
> for people.  When you're on your last leg most people perform better.
> 
> > You lean faster and it gets embeded deeper into you.  Army 
> Training /deliberetly/ takes advantage of this.  The Drill Sargeant 
> is there, in your face, yelling at you inorder to convince your 
> subconconcious that Yes, you are going to suffer horribly if you 
> don't learn this and quickly.
>  
> > In Harry's case...well, honestly I think it's partially snape's 
> fault for it, he's so combative/angry he can't respect snape and 
> can't learn.  If Snape hadn't singled him out and etc etc Harry might 
> have been more willing to learn.  As it is, well, I think, though the 
> armed forced experts can correct me, if Harry tried his 
> attitude/reaction set with a Drill Sargeant, and he was a recruit as 
> opposed to a student, he'd get kicked out.
> 
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> I snipped Neri's & Anne's comments [sorry] in the interest of 
> brevity, and please keep in mind I'm reacting to the whole thread, 
> not just this message.
> 
> I will make one last feeble attempt to bring out a difference that I 
> think is KEY.  HRH & their class of Hogwarts students begin w/ Snape 
> at age **11** and the war is **NOT** yet on.  They are boarding 
> school students, not military academy students or enlistees.  No one 
> has **told** them that their lives are in danger and they damn well 
> better listen & learn this stuff because their *lives* depend on it.  
> When a person goes into the military, he or she is 1) older and 2) 
> *knows* his/her life depends upon listening & learning every detail.
> 
> Doesn't anybody else out there think this is an important difference 
> in the learning process?  That one must *understand* the mission in 
> order for the drill sergeant routine to be most effective?  
> Somebody...anybody...? :-|  [EnsTren, you may be getting at this 
> somewhat in your final paragraph....]

I see the difference, you're talking about - but honestly, no, I 
don't think it's an important difference when you consider the 
Wizarding World as it is presented to us.

Brief lesson on Australian history to explain why I feel that way. 
Late in the 19th Century, it was believed in Australia that we 
faced invasion by the Russians. I won't go into precisely why they 
believed that - but it was a real fear. By the early twentieth 
century, that fear had transferred to a fear of invasion by the 
Germans.

Australia, at the time, had a very small population - it still only 
has 20 million people today. There was no realistic way we could 
form a regular military large enough to defend ourselves. The 
response was the creation of - well, citizen militias. Ordinary 
civilians were given basic military training.

As the level of fear, and likelihood of war increased, such 
training became compulsory for all males between the ages of 12 to 
26. There were real plans in place to put 14 year old boys into 
actual combat if Australia was ever invaded. Many schools had 
military training for this reason - including real drill 
instructors. There's an excellent Australian short film - if anyone 
ever gets the chance to see it - called 'Boy Soldiers' about a boy 
who refuses to drill as a Conscientious Objector - and is 
imprisoned for that refusal. There are actually still remnants of 
these days in schools today - many of Australia's top schools still 
maintain units of the military cadet corps and people join at 13 - 
although it's voluntary now (or at the very least, alternatives 
such as St. John's Ambulance are offered for those who do not wish 
military training.).

The Wizarding World we see is one that is, in many ways, rather 
'old fashioned' by our standards. It's a society that has had to 
fight a war which it seems they barely won - and one in which 
civilians seem to have been targeted more or less at random to 
create terror. It's a society which does have a large population, 
that can support a large military/police force to deal with that 
emergency.

I wouldn't be at all surprised at a decision being taken to make 
sure children are ready to step into a 'war' situation if it arises 
again. I certainly wouldn't find it surprising if individuals have 
that attitude even if society in general doesn't.

We live in a world of professional militaries and decent sized 
police forces who can spare us the necessity of considering the 
need to train children to be ready to defend themselves in that 
sense.

Perhaps the wizarding world does not.




Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia