Prophecy and Choice (was Re: Crouch/Moody/surviving AK)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 97543

imamommy wrote:
<snip> I think the nature of a prophecy is that it describes what
> will happen as a result of choices that will be made, but does not
> determine those choices.
> 
> "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more
than our abilities."  (DD to HP in CoS)

<snip> The choices
> that lead to the outcome the prophecy describes are independent of
> that prophecy. If choices were made otherwise, the prophecy never
> would have been made, or would have been made differently to reflect
> the alternate outcome.
> 
> The prophecy does not reveal who will be the victor, and ultimately,
I think Harry has the choice of whether or not to defeat or be defeated.

Carol:
I agree that a prophecy describes what will happen as a result of
choices and that the choices that lead to the outcome of the prophecy,
including Voldemort's choice to go after Harry at Godric's Hollow and
Harry's as yet unmade choice of whether (and when and how) to go after
Voldemort are independent of the prophecy. I also agree that the
prophecy doesn't reveal who will be the victor.

I don't think, though, that if different choices were made (in the as-
yet undetermined future) the prophecy would never have been made or
would be made differently. I think it's deliberately obscure and
ambiguous to allow for different outcomes. I also think that the
prophecy would be fulfilled--somehow--whether the people involved knew
about it or not.

We already knew, didn't we, that Harry was destined to confront
Voldemort in some sort of final battle before we read the prophecy? It
seems like a given from the first book onward, the logical consequence
of Godric's Hollow and Voldemort's initial defeat. Harry was protected
from that knowledge by being placed with the Dursleys, but from the
appearance of Hagrid at the hut onward, he's been given information
and experienced confrontations that lead to that conclusion. The
prophecy just confirms what he already knows (though I think that both
he and Dumbledore are misreading it by thinking that one must murder
the other).

In any case, I think that the prophecy will come true in one form or
another whether Voldemort finds out the rest of it or not--and would
have done so if Harry had never heard of it. The prophecy doesn't
determine anything because the element of choice is still
present(when, where, and how) and the outcome is not stated. One will
 permanently defeat or destroy (not necessarily murder) the other (I
think we know who will destroy whom), but there's no guarantee that
either of them will survive. OTOH, if Harry denies his destiny and
fails to confront Voldemort or dies before the confrontation takes
place (as we can be pretty sure he won't), the WW will suffer a
terrible fate.

Carol