Time Travel (was Re: OWLS)

[koinonia02]

No: HPFGUIDX 97852

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Message 97432, "Meredith" 
<msmerymac at y...> wrote :

> The problem with this is the way JKR has established time travel 
>in her books. Unlike the type of time that exists in something 
> like "Back to the Future" or "The Butterfly Effect," you can't go 
> back in time and change things in HP, you can only fulfill what is 
> happening. For more information, read the end of PoA. 

Robert Jones (message 97463):

>I disagree. It is clear that under JKR's theory you can
>change history. True, time-traveling Harry and Hermione didn't
>change history in POA — they just participated in events as they
>were supposed to happen (if that is the right way to put it).

>The problem is that JKR hasn't limited herself to just that — she
>has Hermione telling Harry that McGonagall said that "loads of 
[time-traveling wizards and witches] ended up killing their past or 
>future selves by mistake." (POA 21, p. 399.)

"K":

I have to agree with Robert that you can change history. According 
to Hermione it's one of the most important wizarding laws...you are 
not suppose to change time. 

~~'Hermione,' said Harry suddenly, 'what if we-we just run in there, 
and grab Pettigrew-'

'No!' said Hermione in a terrified whisper. 'Don't you understand? 
We're breaking one of the most important wizarding laws! Nobody's 
supposed to change time, nobody! You heard Dumbledore, if we're seen-
PoA/Ch 21/Pgs 291-291/UK


Why exactly did Dumbledore have Harry and Hermione use the time 
turner?

~~'There must be something that happened around now he wants us to 
change,' he said slowly.
PoA/Ch 21/Pg 290/UK

You aren't suppose to change things but Dumbledore sends them to do 
just that. If they had not used the time turner what would have 
happened to Sirius? They did something to stop what should 
have happened. 

One shouldn't meddle with time ...

~'...There's nothing we can do! We came back to help Sirius. We're 
not supposed to be doing anything else!'
PoA/Ch 21/pg 298/UK

~'Hermione!' said Harry suddenly. 'We've got to move!'

'We mustn't, I keep telling you-'

'Not to interfere! But Lupin's going to run into the Forest, right 
at us!'
PoA/Ch 21/pg 299/UK

~'I think I'd better go outside again, you know,' said Harry 
slowly. 'I can't see what's going on - we won't know when it's time-'

Hermione looked up. Her expression was suspicious.

'I'm not going to try and interfere,' said Harry quickly.
PoA/Ch 21/pg 299/UK


...but it has happened:

~'Exactly! You wouldn't understand, you might even attack yourself! 
Don't you see? Professor McGonagall told me what awful things have 
happened when wizards have meddled with time...loads of them ended 
up killing their past or future selves by mistake!'
PoA/Ch 21/pg 292/UK


Meredith:

> So if Harry ends up going back in time in future books - back to 
>the first Voldy war - why hasn't anyone (i.e. Dumbledore) clued him 
>in? 

"K"

Well, I'm not one of those who believe Harry should be told 
everything. What if Harry has caused loads of problems? He wouldn't 
be able to handle that info. Plus I imagine there are other reasons.

Meredith:

>I don't think we have any canon that can foreshadow or prove that 
>Harry will go back in time again.


"K"
Many things could be answered by the time turner. As I've said I 
don't like the idea but I do think we have canon proof. The time 
turner is introduced in PoA and it's introduced to Harry. 
He now knows it exists and how to use it. JKR was even asked about 
time travel in an interview:

~Will Harry time-travel again?

JKR:Not telling! 

America Online/October 19, 2000
http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2000/1000-aol-chat.htm

Of course that's a typical JKR answer which could mean yes or no.  
;-)

Meredith:

>If Harry goes to the future, how would present!Snape know what will 
>happen, if we think something with Snape *will* happen?

"K"

That's why I dislike time turners. Far too many questions are left 
unanwered. It's also hard to say how a particular author will use it 
and what their rules will be.

I personally don't think Snape hates Harry *only* because of James 
and/or some unrequited love for Lily. There has to be more to the 
man than either of those things. Snape hates Harry. 

If Harry has time-traveled, who is to say that Dumbledore or others 
don't know about it and are trying to straighten it out? I don't 
imagine it would be that easy.

Meredith:
 
> Harry can't go back in time and change anything like Sirius dying. 
> JKR has established that past events CANNOT be changed through 
>time travel, but present events can be fulfilled.I hope that makes 
> sense. 

"K"

Once again:

~'Exactly! You wouldn't understand, you might even attack yourself! 
Don't you see? Professor McGonagall told me what awful things have 
happened when wizards have meddled with time...loads of them ended 
up killing their past or future selves by mistake!'
PoA/Ch 21/pg 292/UK

I don't believe to kill oneself by traveling backwards or forward in 
time would just be a fulfillment. 

Meredith:

>If not, someone can direct you to many other 
> threads discussing time travel, I am sure.

"K":

I actually read very few of those threads so I'm not sure why I'm 
replying to time travel. :-) 

I think another problem some people have is accepting that Harry 
Potter could possibly do anything wrong. It's always the other guy 
such as Dumbledore, Snape, etc. Yet it's Harry who would benefit the 
most from time travel (in his way of thinking).

I don't like time travel yet I do think it will play an important 
role.

 
> ~Luckie, who thinks that plot devices that have already been used, 
> such as time travel and evil!animagi, won't be rehashed in future 
> books.

"K"

It seems some plot devices that we have seen once were also 
introductions to future use. For instance, the beloved polyjuice 
and animagi. I believe PoA was just an introduction to the time 
turner. I hope I'm wrong.

~*JK: ...I loved writing Dumbledore and Dumbledore is the epitome of 
goodness.
Canadian Broadcasting Co./July 2000