[HPforGrownups] Re: "Professor" Snape and Respect

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 98192

On 13 May 2004 at 3:01, dumbledore11214 wrote:

> Well, yes, but that if we all accept that Hogwarts is the exact 
> prototype of military school, which I for myself cannot accept yet. 
> Who knows, maybe when in book 6 Hogwarts becomes a military center 
> for anti-Voldie resistance , I will change my mind.
> 
> Right now, despite strong arguments for Dumbledore preparing children 
> to fight in advance, because he anticipated Voldie coming back, I 
> still think of Hogwarts as a civilian school, where Harry owes Snape 
> no automatic respect.

I think some people are getting confused with ideas here.

I attended a school that was very much modelled on the British 
Public School tradition. Because I absolutely loved my time at such 
a school, and because I'd also attended schools which were from a 
very different philosophy and I've sought to look at the 
differences over the years, I've also done a lot of reading on such 
schools over the years. I think I'm at least semi-qualified to give 
some opinions, though I'd yield to the expertise of someone who'd 
attended one of the British schools rather than my Australian copy 
(although it was a good copy, IMHO - the Australian APS and GPS 
schools worked very hard to retain their connection until quite 
recently often bringing out Masters and Headmasters from the UK to 
ensure things remained authentic).

JKR models Hogwarts very much on the same traditions - or rather, 
to be more accurate in my opinion, she models Hogwarts on the 
traditional British boarding school as depicted in dozens - 
probably hundreds, possibly thousands (-8 - of school stories 
written in the 19th and 20th centuries. These stories tended to 
filter and idealise to the extent that the schools depicted are 
often even purer exemplars of the traditional model than may of the 
real schools were. JKRs drawing on this influence is incredibly 
obvious to me - but I probably wouldn't be able to convince anyone 
of that if they hadn't read those stories.

Now these schools weren't (generally) anything like military 
schools in the sense most modern people understand that term. And 
their primary intention wasn't to create future army officers - in 
peace time, for many of the schools, it was expected that only a 
small number of their ex-pupils wouldn't enter the services.

*However* it was always understood and anticipated that in times of 
war, the ex-pupils of these schools were likely to become the 
instant officers that a rapidly expanding peacetime army would need 
to fight a major war.

If you were a boy at such a school, you were more likely to be 
planning a career as a lawyer or a civil servant than to be a 
soldier. But it was understood that *if* war broke out between 
about your 18th and 30th birthday, then you were quite likely to 
become an army officer for the duration. Not as a long term career 
- just for the period of the war. If you were lucky, you finished 
school in 1902, at a time of relative peace. If you were unlucky 
you finished school in 1914 and wound up in the trenches.

The point is that while the schools weren't military schools, as 
such, and their primary purpose was not to create future soldiers, 
they still regarded it as part of their function and their duty to 
create men who could become soldiers - and more specifically could 
become officers - very quickly, if necessary.

And that meant the discipline of such schools often had at least a 
slightly military flavour, even though they weren't really military 
schools - because they knew that there was always a reasonable 
chance that the boys (and it was virtually always boys) they taught 
would have to be ready to take orders, and to give them.

Now - when it comes to Hogwarts...

>From what we see, the Wizarding World doesn't seem to have anything 
like a standing army. And there may not be any need for anything 
like that. But the existence of Voldemort and his reign of terror 
during the 1970s indicates a world where there are real threats to 
be faced at times. And from what we know of Voldemort's time, it 
looks like he was opposed largely by people who entered the fray 
without any special training - there were aurors, of course - but 
many of the people fighting him seem to have been 'civilians'. And 
in Order of the Phoenix we see much the same thing - the people 
moving up to fight against Voldemort are teachers, and housewives, 
as well as people like aurors.

If you're running a school in a world where there is a realistic 
chance that your students are one day going to face a situation 
where they have to fight for their lives and the lives of others, 
then there is a duty on the school to ensure the students are 
prepared for that eventuality.

That may well place at least some degree of 'militariness' on a 
school, even if it doesn't come close to being a military school.

Learning to show proper respect for others because of their 
position even if you don't feel they deserve it personally, is an 
important thing in this case.

In an ideal world, the people who are in charge of you will be the 
type that you can respect because of who they are. But you don't 
always have that ideal world. And in a crisis that doesn't remove 
the need for people to work together.

Now, I think personally can see a couple of aspects to people like 
Dumbledore expecting students (especially Harry) to show Snape 
respect.

Remember that Dumbledore has spent years aware of the fact that 
Voldemort will return but not knowing when that would occur.

Dumbledore is also aware, from the prophecy that Harry will be 
critical in the eventual defeat of Voldemort.

Dumbledore has a duty to prepare all his students - especially 
Harry - for the possibility of the Second War.

That includes a duty to consider the fact that he may not be around 
himself to lead those students.

Like it or not, I think it's pretty clear that Dumbledore needs to 
consider the possibility that at some point his students, and 
especially Harry, will be fighting a war and Snape could be thrust 
into a position of command. Snape isn't the type to command respect 
because of who he is personally. Trying to ensure respect for his 
position is therefore something Dumbledore may feel it's especially 
necessary to stress.

More personally... I think Dumbledore knows Snape's psyche very 
well. Personally I feel Snape *craves* Harry's respect. Snape - for 
whatever reason - does not appear to have been treated well by 
James Potter and his friends. They didn't respect him - and I think 
Snape may well have craved that respect for all sorts of reasons.

Look at Snape's relationship with Remus and Sirius. While he 
certainly isn't friendly with either of them - he seems to be able 
to hold himself better in control around Remus than around Sirius. 
Why? I think it's because Lupin goes out of his way to treat Snape 
with respect, and Snape responds to that. Black, on the other hand, 
doesn't respect Snape - and so Snape cannot deal with him.

Harry is the image of his father. And I think Dumbledore realises 
that if Harry treats Snape with respect, it's possible Snape will 
modify his behaviour towards Harry. Now that doesn't speak well of 
Snape at all - he's the adult, he should be the one trying to treat 
Harry properly - but he is obviously incapable of that. I think 
Dumbledore may feel that if Harry shows Snape respect, over time, 
Snape will be mollified.

And that starts with minor courtesies.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia