[HPforGrownups] Re: A different and totally serious Harry 'ship

[Erika L.]

No: HPFGUIDX 98400

Erika :
> It's possible I suppose, but highly unlikely IMO, and, to be 
> frank, I think I'd be a little disappointed that a character who's 
> been such a nonentity through most of the series would snag the 
> lead man.

Del replied :
>But Pansy has *not* been a non-entity. Harry has known her for a 
>very long time, and that's already a miracle.

Isn't saying he knows her a bit strong? He's been aware of her existence; that's about the extent of it. And yes, given his track record that may be saying something, but it seems to me she has only stood out in his mind as being one of the unpleasant lot of Sylterins. That hardly seems conducive to shipping.

Del:

>By the way, I guess you object to the Luna/Harry pairings then, 
>because if anyone was a non-entity for 4 years, it was Luna. And if 
>it had been up to Harry, things would have stayed that way !


Please don't make assumptions about what I do an don't object to. I admit that Rowling did an amazing job of making Luna a fully fleshed out character in a very short span of time. It's possible that she could do that with Pansy- I'm not saying it isn't; I just don't happen to believe it. Not only would Rowling have to build her up as a character, she would also have to overcome the reader's perception of Pansy as an antagonist to Harry. Certainly she's not been nice. One can argue that her actions at certain points of GoF are ambiguous, but in PoA she is clearly one of the Syltherins tormenting Harry for having passed out on the Hogwarts Express (75 PoA UK).

Del wrote:
>But wasn't one of the major lessons Harry learned in OoP that people 
>can change ? James was a total jerk at 15, and Lily despised him 
>completely. Yet she started going out with him barely 2 years later, 
>and then married him. Why couldn't Pansy do the same ?

<snip>

> Moreover, it's *high time* JKR finally builds a strong, real, 3-
> dimensional Slytherin kid character. So the fact that Pansy is from 
> Slytherin is actually IMO a good point for her.
> 

Marcus replied:
>Oh so true. That has been the weakest point of the series so far,
>IMO. Slytherins being so 1 or 2 dimensional. We has excused it as
>being the POV of an 11-15 year old. Well, now Harry is older and it
>is *high time* he (we) start seeing some decent Slytherin kids.

Granted, it's possible that Pansy will change and turn out to be the theoretical Good Slytherin, but why a ship? Is there anything to suggest it at all? Have they even had a conversation in five years? And why Pansy in the first place? We already have a repentant/reformed Slytherin with Snape. Wouldn't it be more useful to see a Slytherin who isn't nasty to begin with? Or is that asking too much? Theodore Nott or Blaise Zambini have a clean track record as far as we know so they could just as easily be candidates if we ever do meet a Good Slytherin. Blaise is even a Saint's name IIRC. And even if Pansy is to become the Good Sylth, why a ship?

Del:

>And we also have to remember that the story is told from Harry's 
>point of view. And at the precise moment, Harry thinks Pansy is all 
>evil, so of course he sees her in a completely negative light.

It is Harry's POV, but the story isn't told in Harry's words; it remains a limited third person narration and the narrator still has some control over the wording, so I think we have to be wary of dismissing every character description as being entirely a matter of Harry's perception.

Del:
>Take the example of Harry's feelings towards Sirius in PoA. At the 
>beginning of the book, he doesn't even know him. Then he learns 
>about him being an escaped convict, but he doesn't care. Then he 
>becomes aware of a connection between him and Sirius, and still he 
>doesn't care. Then he discovers that Sirius supposedly betrayed his 
>parents, and he suddenly hates Sirius and wants him dead for several 
>months. But when the truth is revealed, he immediately changes his 
>disposition, he wants to live with Sirius, he's completely out of 
>his mind with worry when Sirius is caught, and he takes tremendous 
>risks to save his life.
>So I don't see why Pansy couldn't come around too and realise that 
>she's been spending her affection on the wrong person.

Yes but some readers have complained that they were not entirely convinced by Harry's sudden affection for and attachment to Sirius; I remember threads about it after OoP came out. It's a matter of whether Rowling can pull off such a significant about-face effectively.

Erika:
> Seems to me there's a long way to go before we see a Harry/Pansy 
> ship.

Del replied:
>Not to me. On the contrary, it seems to me like it could happen very 
>quickly if JKR wants it that way. It took only one conversation with 
>Luna for Harry to stop despising her. I don't see that it would 
>necessarily take much longer for him to change his mind about Pansy.


Yes, but he never actually _despised_ Luna. He thought she was a bit mad perhaps, but I never got the impression that he really disliked let a lone despised her. In contrast, I would think that there's good deal more antipathy towards Pansy, which would require more work to overcome.

Del:

>I'm not saying Harry/Pansy *will* happen, I'm just saying it's not 
>at all impossible as far as I can see, considering what we know now.


Well I don't think it's impossible either, just unlikely.

Del:
>Del, who thinks it's quite revealing of Pansy's inner contradictions 
>that she was wearing a pale pink frilly robe at the Yule Ball...


Sort of like Umbridge, don't you think? Pink cardigans, lacy fabrics, doilies, ornamental plates with kittens and bows on the one hand, Dementors, writing lines and blood, and almost using Crucio on a fifteen year old on the other hand.

Marcus:
>Here is something else to think about. Pansy got nailed with antlers
>in OoP -- not horns, mind you -- antlers! Now I am not usually one
>for fore-shadowing. I generally dismiss it as being too woolly and
>inprecise. I am a Professor Binns and Professor McGonagall kind of
>guy. However, this is just too stunning to ignore!

I don't think antlers are enough to indicate ship foreshadowing. I mean look at Hermione for a second. She has a cat and she turned herself into one in CoS. Meanwhile, Ginny, on more than one occasion, has been compared to a cat. Should we then assume we're going to see a Hermione/Ginny ship? ;)

Mandy

>But, I must confess I don't really >understand the urge that some 
>fans have to marry off all the kids to >each other before their 18th 
>birthdays.

<snip>

>There are no books 8 or 9 and I'm afraid >you are all doomed to ship for >eternality, as no resolution is 
>forthcoming imo. 

Actually, I think most shippers are expecting to see the shipping situation resolved in the epilogue Rowling has apparently already written. Personally I would rather it not be resolved, that way no one's ship would have to sink, but I think Rowling's comments suggest that she's going to wrap it all up in that final chapter:

Ananova December 2001 "Potter author knows how it will all end "

In the programme she allows the cameras to see the final chapter, saying: "This is it and I'm not opening it for obvious reasons - this is really I'll wrap everything, it's the epilogue and I basically say what happens to everyone after they leave school, those who survive - because there are deaths, more deaths coming."

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/quickquotes/articles/2001/1201-ananova-staff.htm

Just my two knuts,

Erika (Wolfraven)

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