Dumbledore's role in Sirius' death was Re: ESE!Snape (Was loads of other stuff)

[nkafkafi]

No: HPFGUIDX 98964

Pippin:
Hmmm...so you think what Dumbledore calls 'moral fibre' and
Hermione labels 'the saving people thing' is the same as the
power behind the door?


Neri:
"Er – yeah, that sounds about right"


Pippin:
I don't. There is a special bond between Harry and Sirius, though
I don't expect to convince you of this if JKR couldn't. At any rate,
Dumbledore and Kreacher perceived it, though they'd seen Harry
with Arthur and Lupin too.


Neri:
Wow. An impressive procession of witnesses: JKR, Dumbledore AND 
Kreacher. And, as you write below, Voldemort too. But lets 
deconstruct this evidence:

"but Kreacher information made him [Voldemort] realize that the one 
person whom you would go to any length to rescue was Sirius Black"

So basically JKR wrote that DD said that Voldemort realized, on the 
basis of information from Kreacher, that the one person whom Harry 
would go to any length to rescue was Sirius Black. This boils down to 
Voldy, not the greatest expert on the subject, making this deduction 
according to the information from a half-crazy house-elf, who had his 
reasons to hate Sirius specifically.

So was it the correct deduction? I don't know, of course. This is a 
hypothetical question. In JKR's story it was Sirius that Harry went 
to rescue. It was Sirius who died, and therefore it was Sirius whom 
DD and Harry talked about in this end-of-the-year-talk. And I 
certainly agree that there was a special bond between Harry and 
Sirius. Of course, there is also a special bond, for different 
reasons, between Harry and Ron, or between Harry and Hermione. And 
Harry was known to go to great length to rescue other people too. So 
I guess each reader will have to decide for him/herself, to what 
length would Harry Potter go to rescue:

1. Sirius
2. Hermione
3. Ron
4. Ginny
5. Neville
6. Fleur's little sister
7. Cedric's body     

And the bonus question: what does the-power-behind-the-locked-door 
got to do with each of the above?


Pippin:
The one thing Voldemort understands about love is that people
are willing to compromise their principles for it.


Neri:
Quite a powerful thing. So what was the part that he missed?


Pippin:
The hostage
had to be someone who would bring Harry to the Ministry *even
if* Harry knew why Voldemort was plotting to get him there.

What's complicated is that Harry didn't know as much as
Voldemort thought he did, and so Harry didn't realize there was a
moral dilemma--he'd have handed over the prophecy for Neville
if the Order hadn't shown up in time.


Neri:
Exactly. So Harry didn't know that in order to save Sirius, or in 
order to save Neville, he has to trade the future of the whole WW. 
Had he known this, would he go to THIS length to rescue Sirius?

I don't know. That's another hypothetical question. 


Pippin:
I agree with Neri (and Kneasy ) that Dumbledore couldn't have
anticipated that Voldemort would learn about the Harry-Sirius
bond from Kreacher. But he might well have feared that
Voldemort would learn about it from *Sirius* .

If Sirius fell into Voldemort's hands, Voldemort might find he
had captured not simply an Order member but one who could be
used against Harry himself. Sirius was the weapon.

Did he know it? I think he did.


Neri:
Perhaps Sirius indeed thought that he is the ultimate anti-Harry 
weapon. We know that Voldemort thought so. But did Sirius? Could be, 
but I don't think he was that arrogant. 


Pippin
who salutes Kneasy for steadfastly defending EverSoEvil!Sirius
theory, but thinks he has the wrong man


Neri must add:
OK, I think I finally got it. The point is to take a character who is 
as good as possible and prove that he is actually ESE. No problem, I 
can do that. How about ESE!Hermione ? She's actually a DE who is a 
metamorphmagus. This been done already? If so, I can try ESE!Harry. 
This will be slightly more difficult. Give me a day or two.

Neri