A DE ready to take over LV 's place after Godric's Hollow.

[David Burgess]

No: HPFGUIDX 99290

>vmonte:
>
>I wonder why the LongBottoms were attacked after LV was thought to
>have been defeated. Is it possible that a certtain DE saw this as
>their chance to become the new Lord Thingy?  The only problem though,
>was that LV's defeat/death was still only a rumor; they needed to
>make sure that LV was really dead.  So, when they found the
>Longbottoms, they tortured them for information regarding the events
>at Godric's Hollow.
>

There have been rumblings on the list about a 'romantic' relationship
between Bellatrix and LV.  While supplication to the master would be
enough, if Bellatrix were also emotionally devoted to LV, she'd do
whatever it took to find out if he was really gone and to take whatever
steps were required to find him.

Now, if a certain DE that was trying to position himself for the 'Evil
Overlord' position (to quote userfriendly.org) then the obvious next step
after the Vapormort incident would be to try and figure out how it
happened and to try and figure out if he was "properly dead."

Who do we know that has the kind of charisma and power (and money) to
successfully draw a crowd, and the kind of anti-muggle leanings that would
be needed to truly become the King of the WWorld?

So, my supposition along this line is that Lucius Malfoy went with LV to
attack the Potters (and probably would have followed up and done in the
Longbottoms the same night) and saw the attack bounce back.  Obviously, a
year old child isn't going to be able to do magic, so it was clearly
something else.  Rather than risk another attack, he panics and leaves.

Since Lucius doesn't seem the type to get his hands literally dirty, he
doesn't think to just put Harry on the floor and stomp on his head.  We've
seen Lucius react rashly a couple of times in the past, so what would lead
anyone to believe that he was LESS hot-headed as a relative youth?

Anywqay, word gets back to the DEs through the Floo Network, where it is
picked up by the WSA (Wizard Security Agency), who promptly forwards the
message to the WBI and the WIA ([you figure it out] since it IS a domestic
wizarding problem).  "Of course, since the whole thing is a secret,
everyone knows."

>So, why didn't this person take over LV's "noble" cause?
>

In this scenario, two possible reasons:
1)  The little brat isn't dead yet, and he just fulfilled the prophecy:
"(all sing)  Ding-dong, the wizard's dead...."  Obviously, if this is the
way Evil Overloards are going to be treated, there isn't much of an
incentive to become one.

2)  Who says he didn't?  Assuming it was Lucius, we know that Lucius can
be rash and taken by fits of temper, but we also know that he's willing to
put a plan into motion that will literally take the bulk of the school
year to come to fruition.  Perhaps there are other nefarious schemes in
place that will eventually put him in the position to start, through fiat,
to exact some of these changes.  He is on the Hogwarts Board of Regents
(or whatever that group is) and any good techno-geek will tell you, the
best way to get people to adopt your point of view is to expose them to it
as children in a formal school setting.

>Was it because they were captured and sent to prison?

I doubt it.  For all of the bluster and bravado, the DEs are nothing but a
bunch of bullies.  As such, when real force of will is required, they are
likely to cave in like a house of cards.  I'm thinking that, if anyone was
in a position to take over, they would do it by establishing themselves,
first, as a legitimate business man and upstanding member of the
community.  After that, kill anyone that disagrees with you, and pretty
soon everyone left is on your side.

>
>Did they realize that LV was still alive as Vapormort and decided it
>was too risky to take over?
>

That, I think, was part of the impetus for torturing the Longbottoms. 
They wanted to find out, for sure, what happened to LV.  If he is properly
dead, they can move on with Plan 'B'.  If he isn't, they keep going with
Plan 'A'.  I've read (I don't remember if this is canonical) that one of
the side-effects of multiple memory charms is muddled confusion.


>Or, did this person defect to the Order to save their own skin? (They
>may have realized that the DEs were being captured left and right and
>may have thought their own capture was a matter of time.)
>

I'm thinking not.  "I was Imperiod, I didn't know what I was doing.  Look
at all of the good things that I do for the community and what an
upstanding member of the community I am."  If Crabbe, Goyle, and Malfoy
(senior) were a cell apart from the rest of the DEs, then they would only
be implicated, but nothing would ever be proven if they kept their story
straight.

>I would like to know who sent Bellatrix after the LongBottoms?
>Because I don't think it was her idea; although, she loves her work.
>

My bet is Lucius.  He seems to type, and even though it is JKR, the
obvious answer could be the right one.  Of course, he would rely on a
right-hand man to help him formulate the idea and to pick the right team. 
Someone like Snape (who seems more like the evil Vizir than an Evil
Overlord).

>I wonder if this person was planning for some time to take over as
>Lord Thingy and came up with the idea of the prophecy as a way to
>keep Voldemort busy and unfocused?  If this is true, this person
>knows LV's fears and weaknesses.  And they could be using Trelawny as
>a conduit for their own plan.
>

Now THAT is an interesting idea.  Imperio Trelawny and have her speak the
first prohecy where a DE or two could hear it.  Dumbledore wouldn't know
to look for the control, since the prophecy itself was stunning enough. 
It would take someone who was readily familiar with the Dark Arts, and was
close to the school.  If Snape put the words in her mouth, and Dumbledore
believed them, and the spare DE overheard them (or made them up and
reported that he heard them) then the master behind the Malfoy puppet
would be Snape.

In fact, if Snape helped Lily put the charms together to protect Harry,
and told LV "Try not to hurt the girl, just kill the kid and move on"
without realizing how much damage the spell rebound was going to do, that
would explain why "Step aside, you silly girl" was there.  If Snape was
acting in his own enlightened self-interest, he could have also told
Neville's parents how to protect the kid.  This could also be a good
reason for altering their memories to the point of addling them.

OK, so where did I end up?  Let me summarize:

- Snape manages to produce the prophecy through Trelawny.  He reports it
to LV, who immediately takes it to heart.  He then begins plotting the
demise of all of the July-born children of people that have defied him.

- Snape set up LV for the fall by giving Lily a charm to protect Harry
from harm and to cause whatever spell was cast to rebound onto the caster.
 Since Snape is on the inside for LV, he would have specific knowledge
about LV's weaknesses and strengths.  This would probably have been enough
to 'vanquish' LV, but then Lily tossed in a couple more that kicked in if
she died protecting her kid.  This extra spell protection is what really
blew the house apart.  The prophecy then becomes self-fulfilling through
the actions of Snape.

- Snape convinced Lucius Malfoy to try and find out if LV is properly
dead.  Snape has already called on the Longbottoms, and cast enough memory
charms on them to put them on the verge of insanity.  Follow this up with
the various spells and charms from Bellatrix, and they are permanently
hosed, mentally.  He knew that Bellatrix would screw with their heads (or
made sure she would) thus finishing the job he'd started earlier.

- All the while, Snape is reporting the movements of the DE to DD.  This
convinces DD that Snape is a trustworthy member of the team.

Plausible deniability, a reasonable level of indirection, and he never
actually does any of the work himself.  I like it.

Dave