Deatheater Snape

[arrowsmithbt]

No: HPFGUIDX 99637

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "mnaper2001" <mnaperrone at a...> wrote:
> 
> > The scrawny boy on a bucking broomstick?  It's Sevvy's memory, but 
> > the boy isn't Snape; it's James, the Quidditch star, hexed by Snape.
> > Good joke, no?
> > If so, this would give us a taste of the history of animosity between
> > James and Sevvy *before* the Grey Underpants episode. Without
> > this we only have Sirius's word that there was a history, and Sirius 
> > is not exactly unbiased where Snape is concerned.
> 
> Ally:
> Interesting interpretation.  A good possibility.  But are these kids 
> old enough to be at Hogwarts or do we assume this is an even younger 
> James and Snape who knew each other before Hogwarts?  If it's Snape 
> hexing James in front of Lily while James is trying to show off, that 
> would make sense as a precursor to lots of animosity.  James 
> certainly wouldn't have liked to be embarassed like that in front of 
> someone he was trying to impress.
> 
Kneasy:
It'd be at Hogwarts, I think. There's no hint that Snape and James knew
each other before that. Indeed, the way Sirius describes Sevvy as arriving
at Hogwarts already conversant with Dark Magic implies that he was a 
new comet in their firmament.
Besides, I like the symmetry: Snape hexes James' broomstick but saves
Harry from the same hex.

> > 
> > The crying child? Son-of-Snape. The adults are Sevvy and possibly
> > Florence, the proud parents of this lachrymose tot.
> > It's the only sliver of Snape's past I can see that might give a clue
> > to motivation. A family. And since they don't seem to be around 
> > anymore.....
> 
> Ally:
> 
> Problem:  surely Harry would have recognized the adult as Snape, no?  
> The text has him see a dark haired man with a hooked nose.  If it was 
> Snape yelling at his wife, why wouldn't Harry have immediately 
> recognized him and the text reflected it?  I think it was probably 
> Snape in the corner there as a child and either a father or 
> grandfather in the foreground yelling at the mother. 

Kneasy:
Ah. You're not as suspicious as I am. There's an interesting difference
between the three memories and the "Worst Memory" that caught my
eye.

Harry has no difficulty in identifying a teenage Snape in the latter, but
in the group of three *nobody* is identified. Why not? Could it be that
JKR is allowing (encouraging) us to jump to the wrong conclusions?

This crying child memory has been used to allow Snape some level
of well, excuse, if you like, for his later behaviour. Abused child, 
bound to turn out nasty and probably into an abuser himself - 
logical no?
Maybe, it's possible. But I don't like to ascribe stone cold certainty
to the ineluctable progression of abused => abuser that some seem
to make. Because it can happen doesn't  mean it must happen. What
sort of message would that give to an abused child? You'll be the
same? Uncomfortable thought.

Anyway, I think Sevvy is just plain nasty and the treatment he hands
out to Harry and Neville may have originated with his own child.
Some people don't need an excuse to enjoy what they do. 

> 
> Ally:
> Well, but Harry is viewing DD's pensieve memory as if he were looking 
> at a mirror - he only sees the surface of it.  FOr Snape's, he 
> plunges his head into the pensieve and actually immerses himself in 
> the memory.  That would be my explanation for the difference.
> 

Kneasy:
I don't  think so. "Harry  was thrown forwards and pitched headfirst
into the substance inside the basin -"

Ally:
> My theory for why this is Snape's worst memory is that this was the 
> event that turned him to the Slytherins who became DEs.
> 
> Maybe Snape was pretty much a loner but either Bella and her gang 
> intervened and he was pulled into their group thereafter or he turned 
> to them for assistance or, maybe he retaliated in such a "dark" way 
> in response, that they became impressed and sought him out.  
> 
> We didn't see that entire memory, after all.  Snape pulled Harry out 
> before he could finish watching it.  Who knows what happened after 
> that - I think its what happened after he was hung upside down that 
> makes it his worst memory.
> 
> Either that, or really did love Lily, and ruined any chance he ever 
> had with her by calling her a mudblood.  ; p
> 
Kneasy:
IIRC Sirius says that he was "one of a group of Slytherins" so  I presume
that he did have friends that were sympatico.

No, we don't see the whole memory, though if there was any follow-up
action that showed Snape in a better light or James and Sirius having to
retreat, he probably wouldn't mind Harry seeing it. And  you really think
that 10 minutes of teenage embarassment would turn Snape into  an
anti-mudblood, Muggle torturing DE? When the ones that did it to him
were purebloods? Can't make the connection, myself.

Lily, now. Well, I'm not a  fan of LOLLIPOPS, just  the opposite in fact.
I came up with my AGGIE theory a while back (77800) which offers the
possibility that his reaction to Lily  was a result of her pestering him.
Calling her names in public was the best way to discourage her. So
she married James on  the re-bound. 
Fair plucks the heartstrings.

Kneasy