CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 19: the Lion and the Serpant

[meriaugust]

No: HPFGUIDX 99842

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Melody" <Malady579 at h...> 
wrote:
> Questions:
> 
> 1)  To those with power that are not clever, the clever are a bane 
to
> their existence.  The powerful are really powerless to stop their
> creativity, so do they do it to try to limit it or force them to
> subject themselves to their power?  Do they right so many laws to
> reign in their cleverness to keep them from overthrowing them, or 
do
> they do it to break their spirit?

Meri: Are you talking about Umbridge here? That's quite a quote! 
Anyway, I would say definately yes, Umbridge is trying to break 
Harry's spirit. From the "I must not tell lies" punnishment to the 
Quidditch ban to confiscating his Firebolt to eventually sacking 
Hagrid, Umbridge manages to take away most of the things that Harry 
loves about Hogwarts. Harry is her target, whether this is because 
of her love for Fudge and the MoM or because of her secret Death 
Eater identity I don't know, but she states from the begining that 
Harry is telling attention seeking lies about LV, and for her 
beloved Corneilius to make it out of this unscathed, Harry must be 
broken. Of course, our young Scarred One is much stronger than she 
expects, and almost everything she does just pisses him off more. 
And his anger certainly helped Harry survive fifth year. 
 

> 3)  Where was Dumbledore during the Quidditch match?  Is he trying 
to
> stay out of trouble and not give Umbridge cause to hate him more, 
or
> is he using this "away" time to get things done with the OoP?

Meri: Perhaps if DD was there, he feared that LV would attempt to 
control Harry, which was basically why DD avoided Harry for the 
whole year. Perhaps it is unusual for the Headmaster to attend games 
so early in the season, and this would be evidence for a deeper 
relationship between Harry and DD. 
 
> 4)  SHIP question:  Luna makes a point to wish Ron luck for the
> Quidditch match and Hermione gives him a kiss.  They both pretty 
much
> ignored Harry.  Is this a foreshadow of a cat fight to come?  Who
> would win?

Meri: I don't usually SHIP, but I see Ron and Hermione as an almost 
definate lock. Luna I think will end up with Harry, as she is the 
one who gets Harry to feel something other than grief and pain at 
the end of OotP. But a cat fight between Hermione and Luna? Hermione 
wins, no contest. She isn't about to let her beloved, redheaded, 
Weasley man go, is she? 

> 5)  Slytherin put a lot of time and effort in their tactics against
> Ron and the Gryffindor team.  They spent many hours creating 
badges,
> writing the song, and teaching others to chant and sing 
together...a
> feat in and of itself since Slytherin is not thought of as clever,
> team workers, artistic, and able to sing on pitch (ok that one is
> assumed by me)  Does this show a true willingness on Slytherin's 
side
> to actually work as a group for the good of a common goal even if 
that
> goal is for poor reasons? 

Meri: Well, ambition is one of Slytherin House's qualities, and if 
their ambition was to humiliate Ron and make him loose his 
concentration and fail at Keeping, then they certainly did anything 
to achieve their ends, didn't they? 
 
> 6)  While we are readers, and the other three houses, hate the 
tactics
> used my Slytherin at the Quidditch match, it is actually very
> effective and ingenious.  Worse is said at RL games today to the
> opposing team.  Can Slytherin use this newfound talent for good
> instead of personal gain?

Meri: I am pretty sure it was Phineas Nigellus who said that one of 
the things that set Slytherins apart is the fact that the Slytherins 
will always save their own skins before sacrificing themselves to a 
cause. I join many of my list members in hoping that we will one day 
see a complicated!Slytherin which will bring about the good in the 
house. 
  
> 9)  When the punishment out weighs the crime, does the punishment 
ever
> work in reforming the criminal?  Or does it just inflame them more 
to
> reform the system?  Can punishment really ever work on those smart
> enough and clever enough to fight the injustice of the system?

Meri: Umbridge making Harry write lines in his own blood only 
inspired him to defy Umbridge by teaching the DA, but it wouldn't 
have mattered what she gave him for punnishment there, because he 
knew that he was right about LV and that Umbridge was wrong. Same 
with the Quidditch ban. But, if I may take the discussion back to a 
kinder, gentler, more innocent time: in Sorcerer's Stone, when Harry 
and Hermione are punnished over the dragon incident, they both feel 
like they had been given what they deserved (though I thought fifty 
points each from Gryffindor was a little harsh, especially because 
Malfoy only got twenty) and this did in fact, change their behavior 
for a time. Harry quit investigating things, and didn't break any 
more rules till he was sure the Stone was in danger. But again, no 
matter what Umbridge did to him, Harry was gonna fight the injustice 
of it. As he well should have. 
 
> 10)  Once Lee Jordan graduates, who should take over as 
commentator? 
> (I am cheering for Luna for the sheer amusement of it all...)

Meri: How about Colin and Dennis Creevey? They get so thoroughly 
overexcited about everything that they'd surely be funny. Or maybe 
Dean Thomas the West Ham fan ("Red card, Madam Hooch! Red card, 
miss!").