How and when did Snape learn Occlumency ?

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 117114


Del wrote: 
> We know that Snape is a superb Occlumens now and apparently a good
> Legilimens as well. But when did he learn that? And who taught him?
> <snip> Could it be DD ? Would DD teach a Dark Arts kid 
> skills as dangerous as Occlumency and Legilimency ? Or was it LV
> himself maybe ?
> 
> 4. Did Snape learn Legilimency along with Occlumency ? If not, which
> one did he learn first ?
> 
> 5. How did Snape learn Occlumency ? Someone (Finwitch if I'm not
> mistaken) pointed out that teachers often use their favourite mean
of *learning* to teach. It is also common for people to teach
something specific in the very same way as they were taught it. So
could it be that Snape taught Harry in that weird way (making him more
angry at the start of the lesson) because it was the way he learned
Occlumency himself ?

Carol responds:
At the risk of repeating myself, I don't think we have any evidence
that Snape knows Legilimency beyond the "Legilimens" spell itself. As
for Occlumency, it makes most sense that he learned it to protect
himself from Voldemort when he became a spy, and that Dumbledore
taught him, perhaps using that very same Pensieve. I doubt very much
that LV would teach a young DE to block Legilimency, his own tool (or
one of them) for keeping the DEs under control.

And I don't know whether Finwitch or anyone else has said this before,
but I have: Snape must have taught Harry using the methods that
Dumbledore used to teach him, slightly adapted to the new
circumstances and his own teaching style. There would be no other way
for him to teach it. He's not going to take a college course in
teaching Occlumency. Teacher education is unknown in the WW. The only
model he has is the person who taught him, and that is almost
certainly Dumbledore, at a point when he had earned Dumbledore's trust
and was placing himself in great danger.

Moreover, I think there *is* no other way to teach Occlumency. You
have to enter the student's mind and force him to block your intrusion
 using whatever natural powers he possesses. DD had those powers, so
did Snape, and so, I think, did Harry. He just didn't want to use them
because he wanted to finish his dream. If it hadn't been for that
resistance, he might have succeeded despite his dislike of Snape.
Snape tries to get Harry to see his danger, even presenting himself in
the role of Voldemort to get Harry to and to fight the intrusion into
his mind. He even tells him to block it the same way he blocked the
Imperius Curse. He can't tell Harry to relax. Harry has to be en
garde, anticipating attack and ready to resist it, and Snape, IMO, is
doing his best to get Harry to see that. Those methods, almost
certainly the same methods DD used to teach Snape himself, ought to
have worked on a student with a natural aptitude for Occlumency. it
was not the methods that were at fault but the resistance to the
methods. (I'm not blaming Harry. DD didn't make clear why he had to
learn Occlumency or why it had to be from Snape, and Snape couldn't
tell him why he had to block the dream, so Harry accepted Sirius's
view that Snape was trying to hurt him.) The methods could still work,
if both Harry and Snape saw the need and were willing to work together.

But just possibly Occlumency is not what Harry needs now. For Snape,
if he's still a spy, it's an essential survival skill. I'm not so sure
that's true for Harry, whose mind LV will now be less willing to enter
thanks to the failed possession in the MoM. Maybe what Harry needs now
is some form of Legilimency--entering LV's thoughts through the mind
link without LV's awareness. And that subject Snape, for all his skill
and cleverness, can't teach. It will have to be taught by Dumbledore
if it's taught at all.

Carol